What are the best ultras in the world? (Sponsored by HOKA ONE ONE)

Let me just say this. My favorite day of the year is the fourth Saturday in June, which is the day of the Western States 100. I’ve spectated at the race for the last few years and last year was unfathomably lucky enough to run it. It’s an amazing race with tons of prestige, but it just makes you feel good about humanity. Love it, and will always be there whenever I can.

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LetsRun.com wrote:
*What are the most prestigious/most competitive ultramarathons in the world to win?

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LetsRun.com wrote:*What is your favorite ultra? What is the most beautiful ultra? Is there a bucket list of ultras that most amateurs should aspire to run?

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LetsRun.com wrote:*Who is the GOAT of ultra running?

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LetsRun.com wrote:
*What are the hardest course/world records to break in ultra running?

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Mitchellmac2 wrote:

Let me just say this. My favorite day of the year is the fourth Saturday in June, which is the day of the Western States 100. I’ve spectated at the race for the last few years and last year was unfathomably lucky enough to run it. It’s an amazing race with tons of prestige, but it just makes you feel good about humanity. Love it, and will always be there whenever I can.

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What are the most prestigious/most competitive ultramarathons in the world to win?

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What is your favorite ultra?

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What is the most beautiful ultra?

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Is there a bucket list of ultras that most amateurs should aspire to run?

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Who is the GOAT of ultra running?

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What are the hardest course/world records to break in ultra running?

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wejo wrote:

Just got caught on this thread. Very informative start. Thank you guys (and gals).

My main takeaway so far is the diversity in the "ultra" world. There are so many subsets to it.

As for the GOAT talk, I think my rule of thumb is if you're not a current runner and I've heard of your name, then you're eligible. But that probably biases me to people who have come of age in the last 20 years.

So I'm not sure I had not realized Don Ritchie was a stud until recently. Just read his obituary (linked at bottom) and it talks about him peeing during races. (something I had done for sure when pacing marathons and I think racing too- no I didn't do it when pacing Paula) What do people do when they've got to take a #2 during Ultras? Is there an established way to handle this?

As for Yannis Kouros, I've heard of him, but did he ever do shorter stuff? Looks legendary at longer stuff but would he have been smoked at Comrades by Fordyce?

And can someone get GOAT status or be contender for the top race if they're not in Wikedia? I don't think Ritchie has a wikipedia page and neither does Bright to London unless I'm looking at this wrong?

Ritchie obit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/donald-ritchie-record-setting-ultrarunner-dies-at-73/2018/06/28/539f4f96-7734-11e8-b4b7-308400242c2e_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.74bc847aa371

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Greatest Ultra - Barkley

GOAT - The Barkley Course

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S. Canaday wrote:

Well first of all we had Salazar winning Comrades in the early 90s...sure maybe he wasn't in sub 2:10 shape when he did it, but at least sub 2:15 shape.
And there was 8-time winner Bruce Fordyce (a sub 2:20 guy). Don Ritchie was a sub 2:20 guy....this was decades ago.

Actually look at the top 10 at Comrades or (IAAFWorld 100km Champs) many years in the past 10 years and you will
find some sub 2:20 marathon types quite often.

Now in the mountains (esp at 100-miles) I will say there is more of a lack of "road speed." People of course realize that marathon road and track times PR correlate quite well to "flatter and runnable courses" (ie. Camille Herron for 24 hours on the track or 100-miles on a track/tunnel hill or Comrades win etc), but in the mountains I'd be more worried about a guy like Francois Dhane or Xavier (who both probably couldn't creak 2:25 for a marathon)...Kilian of course as well since he is the "mountain GOAT" but I think he might be able to crack 2:25 in a flat marathon actually....maybe even 2:20. And it is still the 2:25 marathon types can be the most dangerous at 100-miles in the mountains (right now still). Could Kipchoge or a 2:05 guy come out and crush some ultras? Probably. One of our most consistent top American guys at UTMB in the past 5 years has been 2:18 marathoner Tim Tollefson (got 3rd twice).

As far as Western States being the ultimate in the US and "highly valued"....yeah for a lot of the old guard in the US is it. I believe they are quite biased though. And the times are changing. TNF50 in SF is a relatively new race compared to a WS or a JFK, but the $10,000 prize money and accessibility for all faster guys it is lucrative. Again, the top 10 depth at Western States is simply not as dense as a race like TNF50 if you look at it objectively and quantitatively. Part of it has to do with the entry process (aka "needing a golden ticket" or wigging one's way in on an UTWT or sponsorship slot). Part of it has to do with limiting the field size to only a few hundred people.... (whereas UTMB has thousands of people).

And finally the fascination for "100-miles" and "longer is better".....people like to talk about extremes I think. They ask if I want to do a "200-mile race" now because it is so much more "hardcore." There is definitely a niche to that but again I think a lot of it is US based. Like I said before the Euros probably don't care if UTMB was 83 miles or 105 miles. It is simply a logical route around Mont Blanc. I mean do you think "161km" is something special to most of the world?! If anything ultra races around 100km is a more international benchmark and hotly contested event. "Distance run in 24 hours" actually makes more sense than a round and even 100-miles. I'm all for the extreme and longer distances (And want to focus on 100-milers as I get older), but at the same time realize that the MUT Running scene on the international scale does not care about 100 milers as much as some Americans do.

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1.5 cents wrote:

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Forest Gump here wrote:

"As far as "change and evolution goes"....well certainly there have been 2:10-:2:20 marathon type runners doing ultras for decades

Not many ultrarunners have been 2:10-2:20 marathoners.
I like to see some names to back this up.

Some top ultrarunners where in the 2:25 -2:30 range like Yiannis Kouros 2:24 I believe or Wolfgang Schwerk 2:29.
But sub 2:20 probably just some 100k racers.

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I think where the real change in this regard will be the depth of 2:10-2:20 marathoners converting to the trails. We've had them in year's past, even recently in the last 3-5 years, this appears to be a growing trend though. For example, Matt Daniels winning Black Canyon 100k this year, getting a golden ticket to WS. This is WS's first sub 4 miler, correct me if I am wrong please.

I could see a race like TNF50 or Lake Sonoma becoming even more in depth with sub 2:20 guys chasing this race in the future, particularly TNF like Sage noted.

The magic lies past the 100k distance though in Ultra lore. How many "speedy" type guys vs the strength runners in the 2:30-2:40s range can really convert that elite road speed to the 100 mile distance. As a fan, I am intrigued to see where that progresses to. One of my favorite OG runners, Hal Koerner was a mid 2:30s marathon runner in his prime, but ran several strong 100 mile mountain races and won. That was fairly common within his era of ultra guys. Who in this era and beyond will take their 2:15 speed and find dominance in the mountains too at the 100 mile distance? Sage has noted before, it's almost one or the other past a certain point.

Great thread.

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Beautiful ultras might have to include the European races that include the high-altitude guesthouses? Unlike our USA alpine areas, there is far more infrastructure there. Only once did I have fresh coffee & pastry in a 100-miler (the only Long Island 100 in ‘95). Possibly the best snack I’ve ever had.

After watching Sage's video today, and taking into consideration that there are some really top notch ultra's in the US if not the world, I think the trail scene leads in that respect. South Africa has a feast of trail beauties that can compare with most international events, and some of them to name a few e.g. Namaqua Quest - Schaap River Canyon Ultra over 58kms, or the equivalnet 3 day Trail event. You also have the Mac Mac 100 miler, The Washie 100 and the Merrell Whale of Trail 52km Ultra.

However, with that said, There is one baby and yeah its become a bucket list race for many South Africans and overseas runners and yep its a real monster. Its a road race that gives everyone (novices included) a chance , But its a qualifying event where an entrant must run a marathon in under 5 hours to ensure a place on the start line. This year the cut-off has been reduced to 04h50min and this means that many novices or casual runners will not be qualifying. It attracts around 25 000 runners of all shapes, sizes and running capabilities. Yep, its the Comrades Marathon run over 87.7km on the ocean to inland run and every second year it reverses to come down from inland to the ocean. Its a city to city run between Pietermaritzburg and Durban

I think this has to rate as one of the best if not the best road ultra marathon in the world. For the trained elite, its roughly a 5/6 hour run and for the novice like me 12 hours on the hard road. A novice has to train for 2 years to get your body ready for such a grueling event and believe me you would think the hills definitively have eyes on in this race, cos there are some maddening up hills followed by few downs on the Up-Run. The down is a knee killing run after 30kms into the race, where you descend down some valley roads that would leave you crawling around for 2 week before you get some life back in your legs.

So put Comrades on your bucket list and Sage can tell you more, as he has already run the 2015 edition and I think hes back to better his 15th position from the year. A couple years from now there will be the 100th running of this race and I think no other road races compare to this.

I'm only posting here because I tried the Hoka Cavu 2.0 and I want them for free.

Most prestigious ultra seems to be Western States from the ultra runners I've talked to.

My favorite and most underrated ultra would be the Burning River 100 in the Cleveland/Akron area.

My favorite ultra runner is Sage, because he actually posts here under his real name and gives good advice.

Hardest record to break? They're all up for the taking -- the depth of ultrarunners is ridiculously thin. Personally, I would like to see more 24 hour run competitions. This gives you a set goal with limitless strategies. With proper editing, it would even make for decent tellie.

Historically, London to Brighton or Comrades would be the most competitive ultras - back when ultra runners races on the roads. South African Bruce Fordyce is the Goat - still holding the 50 mile WR on the road set on the early 1980s at the AMJA ultra held in Chicago.

Yeah I'd admit that my opinion might be different (And that I might be biased because I've done TNF 50 in SF several times more).

But again my main point: The North Face 50-miler is more accessible (no crazy lottery, no golden ticket requirement, no crazy $400 entry fee or needing a crew for 100-miles)...plus it has $10,000 for first place.

Because it is 50-miles and "non-technical" you get more "road speed cross overs."

Also, the finisher density of the top 10 I believe (historically) is a lot more competitive at The North Face 50 compared to Western States 100.

Finally, you get pretty much all the runners that won or placed well at Western States: (ie. Rob Krars, Francois D'hane, Ryan Sandes, Magda Boulet, Timothy Olson, Stephanie Howe etc.) that also do North Face (in the past 5 years or so)
plus guys like Zach Miller, Hayden Hawks, Tim Tollefson, Dakota Jones, Max King etc and some international guys.

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yeah, but.. wrote:

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S. Canaday wrote:

Well first of all we had Salazar winning Comrades in the early 90s...sure maybe he wasn't in sub 2:10 shape when he did it, but at least sub 2:15 shape.
And there was 8-time winner Bruce Fordyce (a sub 2:20 guy). Don Ritchie was a sub 2:20 guy....this was decades ago.

Actually look at the top 10 at Comrades or (IAAFWorld 100km Champs) many years in the past 10 years and you will
find some sub 2:20 marathon types quite often.

Now in the mountains (esp at 100-miles) I will say there is more of a lack of "road speed." People of course realize that marathon road and track times PR correlate quite well to "flatter and runnable courses" (ie. Camille Herron for 24 hours on the track or 100-miles on a track/tunnel hill or Comrades win etc), but in the mountains I'd be more worried about a guy like Francois Dhane or Xavier (who both probably couldn't creak 2:25 for a marathon)...Kilian of course as well since he is the "mountain GOAT" but I think he might be able to crack 2:25 in a flat marathon actually....maybe even 2:20. And it is still the 2:25 marathon types can be the most dangerous at 100-miles in the mountains (right now still). Could Kipchoge or a 2:05 guy come out and crush some ultras? Probably. One of our most consistent top American guys at UTMB in the past 5 years has been 2:18 marathoner Tim Tollefson (got 3rd twice).

As far as Western States being the ultimate in the US and "highly valued"....yeah for a lot of the old guard in the US is it. I believe they are quite biased though. And the times are changing. TNF50 in SF is a relatively new race compared to a WS or a JFK, but the $10,000 prize money and accessibility for all faster guys it is lucrative. Again, the top 10 depth at Western States is simply not as dense as a race like TNF50 if you look at it objectively and quantitatively. Part of it has to do with the entry process (aka "needing a golden ticket" or wigging one's way in on an UTWT or sponsorship slot). Part of it has to do with limiting the field size to only a few hundred people.... (whereas UTMB has thousands of people).

And finally the fascination for "100-miles" and "longer is better".....people like to talk about extremes I think. They ask if I want to do a "200-mile race" now because it is so much more "hardcore." There is definitely a niche to that but again I think a lot of it is US based. Like I said before the Euros probably don't care if UTMB was 83 miles or 105 miles. It is simply a logical route around Mont Blanc. I mean do you think "161km" is something special to most of the world?! If anything ultra races around 100km is a more international benchmark and hotly contested event. "Distance run in 24 hours" actually makes more sense than a round and even 100-miles. I'm all for the extreme and longer distances (And want to focus on 100-milers as I get older), but at the same time realize that the MUT Running scene on the international scale does not care about 100 milers as much as some Americans do.

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1.5 cents wrote:

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Forest Gump here wrote:

"As far as "change and evolution goes"....well certainly there have been 2:10-:2:20 marathon type runners doing ultras for decades

Not many ultrarunners have been 2:10-2:20 marathoners.
I like to see some names to back this up.

Some top ultrarunners where in the 2:25 -2:30 range like Yiannis Kouros 2:24 I believe or Wolfgang Schwerk 2:29.
But sub 2:20 probably just some 100k racers.

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I think where the real change in this regard will be the depth of 2:10-2:20 marathoners converting to the trails. We've had them in year's past, even recently in the last 3-5 years, this appears to be a growing trend though. For example, Matt Daniels winning Black Canyon 100k this year, getting a golden ticket to WS. This is WS's first sub 4 miler, correct me if I am wrong please.

I could see a race like TNF50 or Lake Sonoma becoming even more in depth with sub 2:20 guys chasing this race in the future, particularly TNF like Sage noted.

The magic lies past the 100k distance though in Ultra lore. How many "speedy" type guys vs the strength runners in the 2:30-2:40s range can really convert that elite road speed to the 100 mile distance. As a fan, I am intrigued to see where that progresses to. One of my favorite OG runners, Hal Koerner was a mid 2:30s marathon runner in his prime, but ran several strong 100 mile mountain races and won. That was fairly common within his era of ultra guys. Who in this era and beyond will take their 2:15 speed and find dominance in the mountains too at the 100 mile distance? Sage has noted before, it's almost one or the other past a certain point.

Great thread.

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Sage, I have to ask..and be honest about this..if you had won WS in 2016 and or set the record, would your opinion of the race be different? You cite in the last 8 years or so TNF 50 for example is more competitive than WS. I respect your opinion as a pro athlete, but could one not argue at least state side WS is the most competitive ultra race?

I mean WS brings back the top 10 and golden ticket qualifiers, which seems like a pretty legit way to stack a field. Many past runners have even cited in this decade the competitiveness at WS is per runner more deep than it ever has been. Guys not just vying for top 10 but the podium spot too, and ultimately the win.

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I believe the best ultra in the world is the first one that you do. I did my first ultra(100k) about a month ago, and even though the route wasn't the nicest and the course was practically flat all the way, it will be a run I won't forget any time soon . I feel that in general, inexperience of anything makes for the most enjoyable moments and being out of your comfort zone helps you to develop yourself mentally and physically. Now I know that peanuts are good, vanilla milk doesn't agree with my system and hokas are good shoes for a long run :)

I agree with Sage when he says it is only in the US that 100s are a big deal. For the many reasons he listed, Western States doesn't have the international depth of UTMB or Comrades. 100k seems like a better standard to me.

I really like his approach of targeting races that are the most competitive. Any of the Golden Trail series are in that category, although none of them are beyond 42k. The Pikes Peak Marathon is the US race in that series. Very competitive, iconic and historic (3rd oldest US marathon and the first to allow women). Even Rojo has heard of it.

the blue2blue challenge is the best ultra out there don’t @ me ???

Your search begins and ends with one runner: Jim Walmsley

A cool but little known Southern California course along parts of the Pacific Crest Trail is the AC100, Angeles Crest 100.

Before deciding on a best / most competitive ultra or GOAT, it would be helpful to break down ultras into categories. Then we could decide the best ultra(s) and GOAT in each category. After doing that, we could see if any one course is the best overall, and whether there is an overall GOAT overall. As a start (adjust these as needed):

Road Ultras (50km - 100km)
- Roughly speaking an extension of road marathons (but typically hillier).
- Runners excelling here typically have a road or track background.
Most Competitive/Prestigious:
- Comrades
- Two Oceans
- IAU 100k World Championship
- GOAT: ?

Trail Ultras (50km - 100km)
- Substantially more vertical change than a road marathon, but runnable (see Mountain Ultras below for non-runnable courses).
- Typically a fast marathoner is likely to be a fast trail 50km - 100km runner (aside from extreme/outlier courses), with proper adaptation to vertical change
Most Competitive/Prestigious
- North Face 50
- ???
- GOAT: ?

Trail Ultras (100 mile)
- Separate from 50km-100km, reasons:
1. Historically, fast runners in marathons, road ultras, and 50km-100km are typically competitive, but not automatically near the top when moving to 100 miles.
2. More per-race variance due to fueling, course conditions, and race duration, as compared to 50km-100km.
3. There are a substantial number of 100 mile races;
Most Competitive/Prestigious
- Western States
- UTMB (which is interesting competitively since it almost crosses over into a mountain ultra)
- GOAT: ?

Mountain Ultras / Sky Running
- Characterized by extreme ascents and descents, often requiring scrambling and hiking.
- A very fast and competitive sky runner may be slow (relatively speaking) on a flat marathon course.
- A very fast road marathoner is typically competitive, but the terrain and race is so vastly different than a flat road marathon that they are not automatically near the top.
Most Competitive/Prestigious
- Zegama
- ???
- GOAT: Killian Jornet

"Extreme" Races (this could be broken down further)
- The race format itself is extreme, due to time, distance, or unique characteristics.
- 24 hour record (on a track)
- Barkley
- Tour de Geants
- GOAT: ???

I like this...these categories make sense.

However, I think for the "road ultras" can we get into just "flat road/track" stuff even up to 24+ hours (and not just 100km).
24 hours on a track I think still correlates very well with "road marathon speed." Maybe at 48 hours we put it in the "extreme category" as that is then multi-day stuff.
For example, Camille Herron has done well at Comrades (won) and also the 100-miler records (Tunnel hill/track) as well as up to 24 hours....This of course could include IAU 100km Worlds as well as 24hr worlds and maybe even Badwater/Spartathon and Kouros territory. (but of course that might stretch into 48 hours and more multi-day stuff....which is "Extreme" and I agree would include Barkleys, 200-milers etc)

But it is " more flat and non-technical" and usually runnable all the way (track/roads/tame dirt roads).
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Then for" trail ultras" we have those iconic 100-milers:
Western States 100
and UMTB:
Of course Kilian has won both of those (as well as dominated at a lot the shorter mountain stuff "Sky Running" and "Golden Trail Series"....however note he did not win the GTS last year.

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The stuff at 42km and less (some of the most competitive and epic mountain races in the world!) like Zegama and Sierre-Zinal can be in the same category as WMRA Mountain Running Champs (12km)....these are technically not ultras in distance obviously though... but make up the "M" in "Mountain-Ultra-Trail aka 'MUT' Running"....Kilian may be the GOAT there although we also had/have guys like Jonathon Wyatt. (Robbie Simpson is pretty good now too)...might want to also include some Fell Running now that I think about it!

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mgc wrote:

Before deciding on a best / most competitive ultra or GOAT, it would be helpful to break down ultras into categories. Then we could decide the best ultra(s) and GOAT in each category. After doing that, we could see if any one course is the best overall, and whether there is an overall GOAT overall. As a start (adjust these as needed):

Road Ultras (50km - 100km)
- Roughly speaking an extension of road marathons (but typically hillier).
- Runners excelling here typically have a road or track background.
Most Competitive/Prestigious:
- Comrades
- Two Oceans
- IAU 100k World Championship
- GOAT: ?

Trail Ultras (50km - 100km)
- Substantially more vertical change than a road marathon, but runnable (see Mountain Ultras below for non-runnable courses).
- Typically a fast marathoner is likely to be a fast trail 50km - 100km runner (aside from extreme/outlier courses), with proper adaptation to vertical change
Most Competitive/Prestigious
- North Face 50
- ???
- GOAT: ?

Trail Ultras (100 mile)
- Separate from 50km-100km, reasons:
1. Historically, fast runners in marathons, road ultras, and 50km-100km are typically competitive, but not automatically near the top when moving to 100 miles.
2. More per-race variance due to fueling, course conditions, and race duration, as compared to 50km-100km.
3. There are a substantial number of 100 mile races;
Most Competitive/Prestigious
- Western States
- UTMB (which is interesting competitively since it almost crosses over into a mountain ultra)
- GOAT: ?

Mountain Ultras / Sky Running (100 mile)
- Characterized by extreme ascents and descents, often requiring scrambling and hiking.
- A very fast and competitive sky runner may be slow (relatively speaking) on a flat marathon course.
- A very fast road marathoner is typically competitive, but the terrain and race is so vastly different than a flat road marathon that they are not automatically near the top.
Most Competitive/Prestigious
- Zegama
- ???
- GOAT: Killian Jornet

"Extreme" Races (this could be broken down further)
- The race format itself is extreme, due to time, distance, or unique characteristics.
- 24 hour record (on a track)
- Barkley
- Tour de Geants
- GOAT: ???

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