Kenyan doper Asbel Kiprop (1500m), banned for 4 years by AIU due to convincingly made out case, can still appeal to CAS

Another Kenyan doping apologists that I have to respond to wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Notice the Asbel Kiprop news is being treated like a new bust for at least the fourth time now?

Well...what do you expect since you were one saying the evidence was flimsy and Kiprop would win his appeal. Lol.

According to El K we shouldn't be talking about any Kenyan drug busts or suspensions here, and if we do, we're all racist and the Brojos are turning the forum into the new Stormfront. The suspension of a former Olympic champion and 3 time world champion shouldn't even be mentioned.

I wonder what a clean Kenyan athlete (if there are any) thinks of El K and his appalling doping apologism? I'd love it if David Rudisha, or maybe even better Tim or the Manangois or David Ouma himself, came in here and totally disassociated themselves with El K and stated that he was not helping the fight against doping in Kenya or representative of the attitude of the Kenyan athletics community.

Better still - call him out for being a fake Kenyan, lol!

One star each, FRG & GDR wrote:

In 1970's & 1980's, FRG had one 1500m star, Dr. Thomas Wessinghage; GDR had one 1500m star, Jurgen Straub. One clean and one not clean? Were both clean? Were both PED users? Who knows.

Err Jens Peter Herold just called.

And what are you talking about man? There was a documented and confirmed state sponsored doping program in the GDR that the world has never seen before or since. The coach of Olef Beyer, Straub, and Herold was convicted in the re-unified Germany of feeding potentially lethal peds to one of his 14 year old girl athletes. But 'we don't know' whether Thomas Wessinghage was as doped as Straub (and his mysterious ability to blast out a 53 second third lap in the Olympic final behind the Iron curtain)?

Doping apologists like you are sickening. Hope you're not Casual Observer, I don't think even he goes this far.

El Keniano wrote:

No one is supporting him. But wait, you think it’s normal that ZERO dopers have been caught from pharma-dependent West?

According to El K, the fact that Kenyans are getting busted left, right and center, and there are close to zero busts in the West, proves that the West dopes more than Kenyans.

Yet when the 7th ranked female javelin thrower in GB gets popped, he's all over it claiming it proves the Brits are just as dirty as Kenyans. Likewise when a French female marathoner gets introduced to peas and carrots in Morocco by her Moroccan boyfriend.

Now that's logic!

Harold1 wrote:

Bekele is far from clean. It's a huge deal to break 13:00 these days. He did it on the back half of a 10k.

True, but if there was no Bekele, there probably wouldn't be any Banana Bread.

You're reading words not stated Covette. Too much wine tonight? Weren't you about 6 years old during 1980 Olympics? You would not have been able to get a court to convict Straub on that thin evidence. You exaggerated. From 800m to 1200m, I believe Straub ran a 54.xx 400m. Didn't he pass 800m in 2:05.xx? It's not as if Straub came from no where. Straub finished in top 3, 1979 World Cup, 1500m.

lamplight wrote:

His arguments are garbage.

The EPO in the sample was natural EPO?

LOL

recombinant EPO and endogenous EPO have slightly different structures and are detected separately.

Analytical errors???? Laughable..

Give Nick Willis the gold already

It’s not nearly as simple as you might think. The stains have to be analyzed by a human. It’s not like a 0 shows up for negative samples and a 1 shows up for positive.

I don’t know much about Kiprop other than that he raced as strange as he looks, but I’m certain the large majority of people don’t understand that results have a margin of error, which means there can be false positive and false negatives. The science is far from being perfected otherwise more people would be caught.

Small technical note -- the IAAF is not in charge of medals for the Olympics. The IOC organizes the Olympics.

Another Kenyan doping apologists that I have to respond to wrote:

Bob Lawblah wrote:

Lawsuit? In which country and who would have any type of jurisdiction or authority? That’s laughable.

And even if he filed and won in NZ how on earth could he collect or have anything enforced in Kenya?

What are you talking about?

A lawsuit would be difficult, but at the very least the IAAF should strip Kiprop "doper" of the Olympic gold medal and award it to Willis, the rightful owner. In addition, Bett "doper" should have the WC bronze stripped and award it to Langford, the rightful owner.

But it's a sure Bett that none of this will ever happen as the Kenyan cheaters keep prospering from their doping like bandits!

jyt

Coevett wrote:

But 'we don't know' whether Thomas Wessinghage was as doped as Straub (and his mysterious ability to blast out a 53 second third lap in the Olympic final behind the Iron curtain)?

Doping apologists like you are sickening. Hope you're not Casual Observer, I don't think even he goes this far.

Well, so far I've been watching these Kiprop threads from afar with amusement. Still waiting for Canova to explain how he knows that Kiprop doped only once. Rekrunner already pointed out happily that Kiprop was slower while getting caught...

But I have to say, you have a weird way of using "doping apologist". Literally all of us know of the Stasi-supported doping program in the GDR, and most of us know of the state-encouraged program in the FRG. So yes, Straub was doped to the gills, and Wessinghage was on a more restrained doping program, meaning doped yes, but not as doped.

Let's not forget that the unified Germany gladly embraced the East's doping coaches and athletes, eagerly collected medals with those athletes (e.g., Moeller/Krabbe/Breuer with Springstein) that it was officially condemning in the late 80s. See for example here:

For comparison, think about Ben Johnson vs. Carl Lewis (of course not regarding the politics): both evidently doped, but only one of them a walking pharmacy. Ben also demonstrated, as a hard-core steroid abuser over several years until he was caught, how easy it was to avoid testing positive in the West in the early 80s.

That is grudgingly accepting the sad reality, not apologizing doping.

Some more points in the interest of factual correctness. Regarding "feeding potentially lethal peds to one of his 14 year old girl athletes", this seems to stretch the truth passed the point of breaking. According to links you provided in other threads: - The PEDs were not doping drugs, but medicines and nutritional supplements, tablets and ampoules from Spain and Portugal, not authorized in Germany, so violating the German Medicines Act - One girl had a viral infection in the heart, when the doctor also learned about the other medicines and supplements, but there was no suggestion that these medicines and supplements caused a viral infection, or if that is even possible - The girl was 13 at the time

ukathleticscoach wrote:

Testing has only recently become common in Kenya even introducing whereabouts system.

This still hasn't happened in Ethiopia

Exactly

casual obsever wrote:

Coevett wrote:

But 'we don't know' whether Thomas Wessinghage was as doped as Straub (and his mysterious ability to blast out a 53 second third lap in the Olympic final behind the Iron curtain)?

Doping apologists like you are sickening. Hope you're not Casual Observer, I don't think even he goes this far.

Well, so far I've been watching these Kiprop threads from afar with amusement. Still waiting for Canova to explain how he knows that Kiprop doped only once. Rekrunner already pointed out happily that Kiprop was slower while getting caught...

Here's how the Rekrunner, Renato, Ghost1 etc apologist argument is refuted. With a time-line (that I have repeated before). Starting in 2015 Kiprop was 3:26 capable and World Champion. Into 2016, Kiprop was everybody's favorite for Rio gold. Letsrun even sent a correspondent to Kenya to watch him train in early May, where at he ran a 2:47 1200m time trial (3:28 1500m/ 3:45 mile pace) at high altitude! He then ran 400m sprints in like 53s. By June he toyed with the field in Birmingham running 3:29 and beating a lot of the world's best milers by 3s. So he was in superb shape. Then it unravelled, Federico Rosa was arrested and literally overnight Kiprop was only a 3:33 in Monaco man, which most here agree in 1-2s quicker than anywhere else (barr the Rieti track). In the Rio final Kiprop ran out of gas up the home stretch. Obviously, Kiprop was off the good stuff. Then in 2017 around April the Russian hackers AKA The Fancy Bears drop a bombshell list from the internal testing analysis of the IAAF that showed Kiprop was likely doping. For him this was just another warning to keep off the sauce. Throughout the 2017 season Kiprop was nothing more than a 3:34 runner, finishing well back at the world championships in London. Everyone considered him a spent force. In late 2017, probably thinking he was in the clear back home and no longer top dog, he probably thought that he could get away with getting back on the sauce and making some cash, but the rest is history. Especially his excuses this time last year. Kiprop was obviously a long time doper that got away with it until he was tripped up.

Bad Cop too wrote:

its an unfair cop wrote:

at least he has his police job to fall back on.

He can go back to shaking down hard working business owners for "protection" money/

Lol I hope they put him in the slammer.

So now you're claiming that you meant that West Germany and GDR only had one star each who was a star in BOTH the 70's and 80's?? Because Herold was certainly a 1500 star in the 80's. Any reasonable reader would take you to mean that the GDR only had one 1500 star in the 70s or 80s, and you don't have much of a point if you didn't mean that.

You don't seem to have any grasp of reasonable standards of evidence or likelihood. This isn't a court of law. You're a complete a$$ if you think that a GDR athlete was no more likely to be doping than a West German, despite a mountain of evidence, which has been passed in many courts, that the GDR operated the biggest doping regime in history. Beyer's name was on a list produced by the Stasi on athlete's doping. Coached by the same individual who also coached Struab and Beyer.

Sometimes this forum is too much. The biggest 1500 star since El G just been suspended for four years, and trolls like you and Rekrunner turn it into a discussion as to whether GDR athletes doped and whether the GDR coach in question supplied performance enhancers to a 14 year old girl or a 13 year old girl. If your views were typical even here, this site would probably be closed down by law enforcement let alone the Brojos.

rekrunner wrote:

Some more points in the interest of factual correctness.

Regarding "feeding potentially lethal peds to one of his 14 year old girl athletes", this seems to stretch the truth passed the point of breaking. According to links you provided in other threads:

- The PEDs were not doping drugs, but medicines and nutritional supplements, tablets and ampoules from Spain and Portugal, not authorized in Germany, so violating the German Medicines Act

- One girl had a viral infection in the heart, when the doctor also learned about the other medicines and supplements, but there was no suggestion that these medicines and supplements caused a viral infection, or if that is even possible

- The girl was 13 at the time

I don't know about that, I think your interpretation has stretched it though.

The coach fed his '13 year old' athlete (and others) tablets that he believed would make them 'feel better' directly after training. These 'medicines' and highly concentrated supplements are not allowed in Germany because they're considered potentially dangerous. They have much stricter laws in this regard than Spain or Portugal where you can get steroids over the counter and such like.

Good to know that you think a former GDR coach giving a 13 year old girl suffering from a viral infection in the heart illegal highly concentrated tablets after training has nothing to do with PEDs or says anything about whether his former charges such as Beyer and Straub were doped.

Apparently, the same people who accuse me of being racist for calling out the Kenyan doping problem go to great lengths to defend GDR coaches convicted for feeding young girls illegal tablets and medicines after training.

At some point, maybe the Brojos have to draw a line.

The Birmingham race is worth watching again. This is one of the most egregious races with Kiprop. As you said, he's toying with a world-class field. I mean, c'mon, he buries Iguider, who is no slouch and is the 2nd fastest Morrocan behind El G! Lol. Then he makes Willis & the rest of the field look like a bunch of sub-elites. I don't know how rekrunner can say with a straight face that Kiprop slowed down in 2016 -- this race was ridiculous!

2018 WADA doping report on Kenya.

Some interesting data here on what they're testing positive for, number of IC vs OOC positives, where they're most likely getting the PED(s) from, some individual circumstances surrounding a positive test, etc.

https://www.wada-ama.org/sites/default/files/final_public_report_on_kenya.pdf

+1

Late 2016 to 2017, we got a glimpse of what El G would likely have been without his peds. Actually, El G would probably be a bit slower because he was surely full throttle on EVERYTHING, even stuff that Kiprop had never seen.

Nick Willis even tweeted the video of that Birmingham race in response to the news that Kiprop had been suspended for four years.

Coevett wrote:

Late 2016 to 2017, we got a glimpse of what El G would likely have been without his peds. Actually, El G would probably be a bit slower because he was surely full throttle on EVERYTHING, even stuff that Kiprop had never seen.

Oh....c'mon now...you're getting weird. The stuff being used back in El G's day would have been EPO (or blood doping after 2000 for those that had the $$$, resources and desire), HGH, anabolic steroids (preferably nandronlone based on the numerous positives),testosterone and corticosteroids. This is basically what is being used these days but probably more on a micro-dosing level (except Russia. ?). There's some evidence of the GHRP-2 peptide being used today, and our good friend aduck says the speeeeed peptide is the magic potion today (neither of these were available in the 90s as far as I know).