My biggest pet peeve in Ultra Running

The reason most people run ultras in the first place is becuase they're insecure about their speeds on the roads. So this sort of transition to being insecure about their speed in ultra races shouldn't come as a surprise.

Not that this isn't somewhat of an issue with road running as well, but far less so. People are more willing to just admit that they had a bad day.

Fact, just training to be a 2:08-2:17 marathoner is all you need for ultras.

Japanese national record holder for 50k is held by Yuki.

World record for 100k is held by a 2:17 Japanese marathoner.

classic ultras wrote:

The reason most people run ultras in the first place is becuase they're insecure about their speeds on the roads. So this sort of transition to being insecure about their speed in ultra races shouldn't come as a surprise.

Not that this isn't somewhat of an issue with road running as well, but far less so. People are more willing to just admit that they had a bad day.

If you've ever ran a trail/ultra race, there's nothing to compare to the roads. Many more variables. Many road guys have transitioned well to the 50k-50 mile and past the 100k mark, they're usually many shells away from their self on the starting line.

This is an ignorant analysis, especially with how the sport and transparency has grown. Is a 5/10K runner less than because they can't hack it in the 800-1500m or are the 400 guys not as talented because they don't have the 100m speed? It's just nonsense to keep comparing the sports/events. You never hear this jibberish on the track or roads comparing the sprints to mid distance-marathon.

Some ultra races have road carry over depending on the terrain or distance, up to 100k MAYBE, but how many high end road races attract pro's that even start at high altitude?

Max King, supremely talented runner, probably one of the most diverse runners of our generation. He's been eaten alive at the 100 mile distance. He was leading if I remember correctly through Forest Hill @ Western in 2014, still finished 4th but relatively struggled bad the last 38ish miles. Same with Sage and others.

Jim has been the only runner thus far, to really demonstrate OTQ road speed with supreme mountain running at the 100 mile distance.

Respect the roads for what they are, and the ultra's for their own uniqueness.

I think that has less to do with the ultra scene and more to do with the miserable people you seen to be talking to following an event.

I've rarely heard any of these types of complaints from ultra runners, whereas I have heard them consistently from 13.1/26.2 runners who fell short of their time goals for certain events.

Maybe just start talking to more upbeat, cooler people after events and ditch the Johnny Rainclouds that you have been speaking with.

I'm not talking about the pros, and there's no doubt that Walmsley and Max King are quite impressive and would do well on the roads too if that were their focus. They're not the perpetuators of this kind of talk though.

Your Joe Ultra who got fed up with trying and failing to BQ so instead knocks out 50 miles in 14 hours is like 80% of those races. That's the type of person who usually gets into ultras because they can't or are unwilling to work themselves out of the middle of the pack in major road races. And they love a good excuse.

MUT and Road Runner wrote:

First off. I am a die hard ultra runner. Love it. I love road running as well.. But in the ultra scene one thing is bugging me to death.

Has anyone noticed the endless excuses people say post race. I never hear a basketball player or football player itemize their excuses after a game. If you watch any irunfar post race interview I hear

1. I was over trained

2. My taper was too short

3. Nagging injury

4. This was just a training run

etc etc.

What if michael jordan lost a game and said it was because he was just practicing?

It seems unfair to the winners.

When is someone going to fess up and say they flat out got beat?

That's hardly exclusive to ultrarunning. In fact, I'd say it's less true for ultrarunning than road racing. Every recreational marathon race report ever starts with:

"I hadn't taken a running step in six months due to PF, ITB, runner's knee, three broken legs, and Lupus. I've been working 27 hours per day and hadn't slept in a week. The weather was 107 degrees with 101% humidity and the race was uphill and had a headwind the whole way. So I was just doing this as a training run..."

MUT and Road Runner wrote:

First off. I am a die hard ultra runner. Love it. I love road running as well.. But in the ultra scene one thing is bugging me to death.

Has anyone noticed the endless excuses people say post race. I never hear a basketball player or football player itemize their excuses after a game. If you watch any irunfar post race interview I hear

1. I was over trained

2. My taper was too short

3. Nagging injury

4. This was just a training run

etc etc.

What if michael jordan lost a game and said it was because he was just practicing?

It seems unfair to the winners.

When is someone going to fess up and say they flat out got beat?

They're narcissists who don't have the intelligence to realize how unseemly such excuse-making is.

If you won't win, or do poorly, and someone asks you about it, people will be far more impressed with you if you simultaneously show humility and determination without (implicitly or explicitly) undermining anyone else.

In their defence, the day after a race of that distance people are pretty wrecked. Everything hurts, and it hurts a lot more when you didn’t win. The mind is exhausted and trying to grapple with a very intense experience.

I don’t really think any of them mean to diminish the accomplishments of those who finished before them, but there is a lot that they need to sort out.

If anything, blame the current expectation for instant answers that social media encourages.

After a few days rest and some time to think, the reasons given might be a little more lucid.

One of the favorite things about letsrun is all the opinions about ultras and ultra runners from folks that have clearly never run ultras or really have any involvement in the ultra community. It’s quite comical. You guys take yourselves way too seriously.

But just FYI most people run ultras because they enjoy them. We like the trails, the scenery, the comradery and supportive community and the challenge of doing really long distances and pushing the body to its limits.

I participate and enjoy ultras as well. And I have a list of peeves greater than what you mentioned!

I agree it's boring to hear those excuses. But, there are reasons why analogies to other sports breaks down:

* Players in team sports like basketball/baseball have ~80-170+ games/yr, whereas a top runner in ultras has like 1-4 or so goal races. They're hyperfocused on everything going right on that one day, and the (boring) details of the interview, if things go wrong, will go back to things in the last few weeks/months in training. But in team sports, you wouldn't go back to talking about what happened 1, 2, 3 weeks ago because it's over with and you were already interviewed about it.

* Ultras are really long, and boring things happen that affect the race, like puking or twisting an ankle or what-not. Things like that are less likely to happen in shorter (duration) sports; when they do, a player will often rest up to consider the next game, and is literally replaceable by a teammate.

* Ultras are not televised or spectated for long stretches, so they're literally recapping issues that happened outside of view.

* Many ultras (100M/mountain races especially) are not overly competitive between individual talent/skill at the top. For a truly competitive race in which one person was clearly beat, 2 (or more) guys have to have awesome days where everything goes right and one guy's just a bit faster. Instead, the top ones still usually have a bad patch or two but the one who manages the best wins. So the story ends up being about that sort of management moreso than some sort of magic perfect pace and a sprint finish.

A runner hopes for a perfect training block and perfect day, and that rarely happens, so they're going to recap the perceived things that didn't go well. Many of those things are also true for the winner, but there's no reason for them to dwell on it.

On the flipside, the interesting stories are due to the terrain, wildlife, weather, and other surprises, unique to other sports. But even when better experienced directly!

I’ve ran a couple of ultras and like most running events the vast majority of people I met were really cool.

However, there is one thing that bugs me a bit, the self-description of ‘Ultra-runner’. In my experience;

Track specialist = runner

Cross country lover = runner

Marathon man = runner

Weekend jogger = runner

Does one marathon+ distance = ultra runner

The fact is that there are a lot of factors at play in ultramarathons, especially as the time/distance/vert goes up. In a marathon there are two or three things that could go wrong, and if they do, you'll maybe run a couple minutes slower, or at worst you'll jog it in and be ten or fifteen minutes back on a really bad day. In ultras, that's all exponential and you can lose ten minutes very easily by not bringing enough water or calories with you for a 10mi section of the race.

In an irunfar interview, of course people are going to mention what went wrong. It's more interesting to talk about what went wrong than what went right.

Also, the excuses the OP listed are all pretty valid. Overtraining is very common in races of all distances. Most pro marathoners are right on the line of overtraining, all the time. I've never heard somebody blame their taper for a bad race unless they said it was too long of a taper. And of course nagging injuries are worth mentioning.

Also, plenty of people are willing to admit that they were flat-out beat. Not sure how ultrarunners would be any different than roadies on this subject though

"most people" ... who run Ultras know they have zero chance of winning and probably run for some personal reason like wanting to see if they are capable of running 'that' long or 'that' far and there are probably very few reclusive runners doing Ultras--meaning that the community they train with and run with already know their capabilities and general pace to begin with.

These excuses are very common but not special to ultrarunning.

elephino wrote:

That's hardly exclusive to ultrarunning. In fact, I'd say it's less true for ultrarunning than road racing. Every recreational marathon race report ever starts with:

"I hadn't taken a running step in six months due to PF, ITB, runner's knee, three broken legs, and Lupus. I've been working 27 hours per day and hadn't slept in a week. The weather was 107 degrees with 101% humidity and the race was uphill and had a headwind the whole way. So I was just doing this as a training run..."

Sounds about right.