Boston - Salazar vs Mangess

I don't think the situation is as simple as you make it out to be. Magness does not coach Crouch in the way that Salazar coaches Hasay. Magness is not with Crouch everyday like Salazar is with Hasay.

Salazar was amazing available at Boston. Great energy and passion for the sport. I didn't see Magness at all interacting with the community.

salazar is the hero we need

sit and kick wrote:

salazar is the cheater we need

FTFY

I get the point of the immediate comparison with Salazar (two very good examples), and agree that this exposes Steve's lack of professional objectivity and judgment. His own words... "I supported her decision 100%"

I also get why Sarah wanted to proceed, and I get her subjective desperation to follow through with the dream, but this reeks of desperation on Steve's side as well. Only a desperate coach, with a huge (self inflicted) chip on his shoulder would openly support such reckless decision making. That's a huge red flag!

We have an emotionally invested professional athlete with a significant stress reaction to the femur about to compete (at or slightly above race pace) on a course with a net downhill gain for the first 10 miles or so. I assume she’s paying Steve to be the objective voice of reason here… The challenge of the first half of this course is no secret, and every year the 10 miles of net downhill, and the impact it has on the quadriceps is literally in every conversation about how to successfully race Boston.

WTF could go wrong?

Why no compromise?

If Sarah is adamant about proceeding, why not compromise with start the race, and the minute Sarah's unable to maintain optimal economy or race pace due to pain in the femur, she drops out and lives to fight another day (hopefully minimizing damage).

Obviously you haven't spent time with either Magness our Crouch. Combined IQ of about 80 between them.

As you say, the coach has the responsibility to look out for the best interests of the athlete. Agreeing with an athlete's wants or desire to compete is not very professional, in my opinion. It is being a friend going along with what the athlete wants.

Many coaches make the same mistake, so I am not being critical, rather I am observing and suggesting what the role of the coach should be. As an exercise physiology master, he should know that a stress reaction is not something you just ignore, not with the advanced medical analysis that is available today. Even a stress reaction can takes weeks the heal. You don't take unnecessary risks whether it be high school, college or the pros.

ljlkjl wrote:

Obviously you haven't spent time with either Magness our Crouch. Combined IQ of about 80 between them.

This is one of the major problems with the professional level of the sport, whether an athlete or a coach there's too low of a barrier to entry. All an athlete has to do is post nice, staged training pics, gain an Instagram following, and voila they are Rabbit Elite pros or whatever.

hardset nipples wrote:

ljlkjl wrote:

Obviously you haven't spent time with either Magness our Crouch. Combined IQ of about 80 between them.

This is one of the major problems with the professional level of the sport, whether an athlete or a coach there's too low of a barrier to entry. All an athlete has to do is post nice, staged training pics, gain an Instagram following, and voila they are Rabbit Elite pros or whatever.

I get your point, and share the sentiment of the f'ing instagram 'professionals'... but to be fare to Sarah, she has established herself as an elite marathoner worthy of recognition. Her performance record is pretty solid. She's not (in my opinion) an A-list elite, but has potential to move under 2:30 with the right guidance (which should be scrutinized heavily after this latest issue).

justthefacts wrote:

As you say, the coach has the responsibility to look out for the best interests of the athlete. Agreeing with an athlete's wants or desire to compete is not very professional, in my opinion. It is being a friend going along with what the athlete wants.

Many coaches make the same mistake, so I am not being critical, rather I am observing and suggesting what the role of the coach should be. As an exercise physiology master, he should know that a stress reaction is not something you just ignore, not with the advanced medical analysis that is available today. Even a stress reaction can takes weeks the heal. You don't take unnecessary risks whether it be high school, college or the pros.

I think this is a good point and big difference between the two coaches.

Magness is greener as a coach and seems to be worried more about being liked and friends and supporting what his athletes want to do, even when its a mistake like in Crouch's situation (come on, a femur stress reaction and deciding to run a marathon which is downhill the first 10 miles --- who didn't see a fracture happening), more then he is offering hard real world analysis and guidance even when unpopular or not what the athlete wants to hear. I believe Salazar even said this about why they let Magness go, he got "involved" with one of his athletes and seemed overly interested in his friendship/relationship with them which clouds his judgement.

Salazar is more athlete career focused, guiding the athletes decisions and is a team coach so has more control on what the athlete does which fits his style more. He is not concerned too much with public perception (obviously).

Remember when Salazar was young and didn't have many results to back him up as a coach and experimented with the detectable limit of testosterone, traded prescribed drugs, and had illegal IVs administered to athletes? I guess all young coaches just have a few teachable moments along the way to a brighter future.

Completely understand that coaches make mistakes. What is troubling to me is Magness’ Comments on it yesterday:

"Ha! That's hilarious. I'm proud of Sarah going for it. We had a discussion before hand and weighed the risks and benefits. In the end, it's her career and I'm here to support her. I stand by her decision 100%, and will take whatever blame anyone wants to assign to me for not holding her back. She's one of the toughest runners I know and I couldn't be more thrilled to work with her. “

Sounds like comments from a friend, not a coach. Especially when talking about a decision that left her with a femur fracture just 10 months before the Olympic Trials.

Dumb thread.

Shoebacca wrote:

I guess all young coaches just have a few teachable moments along the way to a brighter future.

Only when they recognize and learn from them, not deny and double down on it.

Mangess is proud of and defends (and laughs at those who disagree) a decision that left his athlete with a fracture of her femur 10 months before the Olympic Marathon Trials. Speaks volumes to me.

Broken Foot Bandit wrote:

Completely understand that coaches make mistakes. What is troubling to me is Magness’ Comments on it yesterday:

"Ha! That's hilarious. I'm proud of Sarah going for it. We had a discussion before hand and weighed the risks and benefits. In the end, it's her career and I'm here to support her. I stand by her decision 100%, and will take whatever blame anyone wants to assign to me for not holding her back. She's one of the toughest runners I know and I couldn't be more thrilled to work with her. “

Sounds like comments from a friend, not a coach. Especially when talking about a decision that left her with a femur fracture just 10 months before the Olympic Trials.

A very Clintonian quote. Pretending to take the blame while blaming everyone else.

Mangess? Adverse?

Magness and aVerse.

So what's the bad news coming down the pike for Nike? That seems to be the situation where people start jumping all over Magness.