Francine Niyonsaba admits to high testosterone.

totorious wrote:

Au contraire - "admits" would imply that she is guilty of something.

Only those with XY chromosomes have testosterone, so he was cheating by running in the women's category.

I am a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (DNP), so I see these cases all the time.

DIII Recruit wrote:

totorious wrote:

Au contraire - "admits" would imply that she is guilty of something.

Only those with XY chromosomes have testosterone, so he was cheating by running in the women's category.

I am a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (DNP), so I see these cases all the time.

You're a doctor and a moran at the same time. Congrats!

DIII Recruit wrote:

totorious wrote:

Au contraire - "admits" would imply that she is guilty of something.

Only those with XY chromosomes have testosterone, so he was cheating by running in the women's category.

I am a Doctor of Naturopathic Medicine (DNP), so I see these cases all the time.

Swing and a miss.

Paging the IAAF/CAS wrote:

tgirl wrote:

At this point everyone can run as the IAAF DSD regulations have been blocked by the Semenya trial before the CAS. Should the IAAF win the Semenya case, then the six month clock starts ticking. The IAAF has stated that athletes with relevant DSDs will be allowed to run in Doha, provided they start on suppressive therapy within one week of a CAS decision in favor of the IAAF.

Should Semenya win her CAS case, then DSD athletes will not be restricted for the foreseeable future.

thanks

You’re welcome.

The IAAF also sent out an open letter some months ago saying that they would work with any DSD athletes who wanted to be eligible for the entire 2019 season and were willing to lower their T.

Gender development disorders are different, however. They represent a situation in which someone has developed in ways that are more similar to the other gender than their gender. In a situation where one is competing as a female, and female categories exist because males have natural advantages, it is very relevant that one produces test much more like a male.

This is really stupid reasoning. Some 6'10" dude out there can probably say he's taller than Lebron but much worse at basketball....so height is irrelevant for the NBA, right?

Necessity and sufficiency are not the same thing.

doot doot wrote:

C-A-S-T-E-R S-E-M-E-N-Y-A

A SECRET MAN, YES

whoa!

GD wrote:

David S wrote:

Literally nowhere in that statement does she say she has XY chromosomes. The fact that she has high testosterone doesn't mean her condition is the same as that of Caster Semenya. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Am I missing something?

_____________________

The IAAF rules apply only to women with intersex conditions who have high levels of testosterone, and upon whose bodies the high testosterone has an androgenizing effect. This doesn't mean she has the same condition as Semenya, but it does mean she has a Difference of Sexual Development (DSD) aka intersex condition. This is the very important piece of information that keeps getting left out of news stories. Women who are not intersex and who have high testosterone are not subject to the IAAF rules.

I see, here's a relevant press release:

Thanks for clearing that up.

Everyone knew about Caster, Wambui yes but Niyonsaba was a ? But now we know for sure that the women's 800m is a complete joke. If the IAAF loses the only fair thing to do is legalize doping for w400m-1500m.

David S wrote:

GD wrote:

_____________________

The IAAF rules apply only to women with intersex conditions who have high levels of testosterone, and upon whose bodies the high testosterone has an androgenizing effect. This doesn't mean she has the same condition as Semenya, but it does mean she has a Difference of Sexual Development (DSD) aka intersex condition. This is the very important piece of information that keeps getting left out of news stories. Women who are not intersex and who have high testosterone are not subject to the IAAF rules.

I see, here's a relevant press release:

https://www.iaaf.org/news/press-release/eligibility-regulations-for-female-classifica

Thanks for clearing that up.

__________________________

That's the document I read a few weeks ago. It's very frustrating that nearly all news stories about this topic report that the IAAF places restrictions on "women with naturally high levels of testosterone." Women without DSDs are not bound by the testosterone limit. There's even an endnote in that document stating that women with polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) are not subject to testosterone limits; also, the document notes that women with PCOS are very unlikely to have testosterone limits that exceed the IAAF limit for women's sport.

zxcvzcxv wrote:

In my view, a testosterone limit that is universally applied within each gender is non-discriminatory because it has a legitimate basis in that natural testosterone levels of, say, ten times normal confer a substantial advantage over female competitors, such that it would be rare that high testosterone athletes would be beaten by low testosterone athletes, just as synthetic T does so, and because high testosterone was already subject to bans.

Semenya, Niyonsaba, and others have a genetic abnormality called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. Theirs is the partial form. They do not react to testosterone normally. There are forms of this disorder where there is absolutely no reaction to testosterone at all.

drbop wrote:

zxcvzcxv wrote:

In my view, a testosterone limit that is universally applied within each gender is non-discriminatory because it has a legitimate basis in that natural testosterone levels of, say, ten times normal confer a substantial advantage over female competitors, such that it would be rare that high testosterone athletes would be beaten by low testosterone athletes, just as synthetic T does so, and because high testosterone was already subject to bans.

Semenya, Niyonsaba, and others have a genetic abnormality called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome. Theirs is the partial form. They do not react to testosterone normally. There are forms of this disorder where there is absolutely no reaction to testosterone at all.

_____________________

This is probably why the IAAF rules specifically state that the testosterone limits apply to women with DSD and upon whose bodies testosterone has an androgenizing effect.

Caster is so high T that she is packing and married a real woman. Yeah. That must be a mere coincidence.

Why omit the sprints and throws?

Subway Surfers wrote:

Everyone knew about Caster, Wambui yes but Niyonsaba was a ? But now we know for sure that the women's 800m is a complete joke. If the IAAF loses the only fair thing to do is legalize doping for w400m-1500m.

David S wrote:

Literally nowhere in that statement does she say she has XY chromosomes. The fact that she has high testosterone doesn't mean her condition is the same as that of Caster Semenya. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. Am I missing something?

There are very few conditions which cause hormonal problems. The evidence therefore points to both Semenya and Niyonsaba having 5 ARD syndrome (rather than Turner or Klinefelter syndrome, which are highly disabling). 5-ARD syndrome manifests in two ways - inability of the body to make use of freely circulating testosterone at all, or inability of the body to utilise testosterone until puberty only.

The evidence also clearly shows these individuals have developed secondary male sex characteristics. That isn’t possible with testosterone in the female ranges. Therefore logically they are most likely males with testes with 5 ARD syndrome. Any female body parts are likely to have been created surgically, the usual remedy in fairly rural places to give such individuals the chance to lead a normal life, since they may not have developed male body parts.

It’s also known on many other mammals, can be a result of consanguity.

Google it. 5-ARD syndrome.

Bad Wigins wrote:

David S wrote:

Literally nowhere in that statement does she say she has XY chromosomes. The fact that she has high testosterone doesn't mean her condition is the same as that of Caster Semenya.

She is short, has narrow shoulders and broad hips, skinny arms and big legs. Nobody in their right mind who saw her on the street would think "that's a dude."

Are you joking?

I’m a woman, and I have no difficulty in seeing that Niyonsaba is a man physically. Looks like any typical short broad shouldered and muscular young guy. Doesn’t look female at all. I’ve never seen a woman who looked like that. Certainly doesn’t look like an elite female athlete, even the drugged up East German athletes still looked more female.

I’ve been saying Niyonsaba was in the same category as Semenya and Wanbui all along.

I find it really surprising that men can’t tell whether someone is male or female when the appearance of a male is so obvious. Do you have that problem a lot? What are you trying to project here, because you must be joking.

Semenyagoat wrote:

Those girls just have a bit higher testosterone and are getting attacked for that. Shameful really. They have brought 800m female running on a good level over the last years.

What about Maria Mutola? She brought W800's back. I wonder what her T-levels were.

i think you mean margaret wambui.her gender has been questioned,as has dorcas ajok(uganda),quincy malekeni,kabange mupopo, and rachael nachula(all zambian 400 meter runners),maria mutola,and a girl from niger named aminatou seyni who has literally come from nowhere in the 400 meters.id never heard of anyone from niger being world class,before.i think there were questions about julia sakara of zimbabwe in the 90s,and also pamela jelimo of kenya.i know kabange mupopo got busted for having too much testosterone,and is serving a drug ban,but she insists she has hyperandrogenism.some people also questioned hima das of india,especially as she came from nowhere last year.

The existence of women's sport is not about "equality". In fact, it is about the opposite.