Road Racing and Training Thread - Week Ending 4/14/19 (Boston Edition)

I suspected it may be difficult to replicate where you are. My very first Boston my coach had me hammering some 1/2 to 1 mile repeats on a 3-4% decline (I have a few longish hills here that work perfectly) and I still feel that work is what enabled me, as a primarily flat road runner, to not only escape the beating of those first few miles but actually hit heart brake and put in a surge while others were crumbling. One year I paid much less attention to those downhill training runs due to a hip flexor injury and it was extremely apparent in my race. Another decent option is adding some blocks to the back of a treadmill too effectively increase its decline capability.

It could very well not even be the case for you but food for thought was you continue to dissect.

Might I ask the complicated embarrassing issue you mentioned?

Sure...I feel guilty about being such a thoroughly focused runner, one that dedicates most of his free time to running or running-associated activities. Thus, I feel I could be a better husband and father. I live for running, and love it very much, and so to take five months and throw it away on this unmitigated distaster of a race is a hard pill to swallow. All of those cold mornings, and icy cold rains...darkness...wind...snow...I could have been doing other things...being a better father or husband...praying...or whatever.

I have shared with you these thoughts, and they are from deep within me.

I am trying my best to take this in stride and learn from it, but it is a complete let down, plain and simple.

outsiderunner wrote:

Thanks very much, guys. Honestly, I am beating myself up some...but am tapering on that some (pun intended)...

Thanks for the Pittsburgh suggestion, and the thought of running it has crossed my mind. I looked at hotel choices (perhaps the most important thing to a runner such as myself), and came up with ZERO options near the start. If I cannot be near the start, I will not run it.

Quick google search turned up 10+ options within 5 blocks of the start line, including some for less than $100...

Really? I tell you honestly (as I always do) that I searched with a google map of hotels near the start (at least 5 or 6), and none had any available rooms for May 4-5. If you have found one, please forward me the info, here on this forum or via some other manner of communication.

darkwave - Thank you for the illuminating comments. Happy running to you.

....apologies for the delay reporting the Boston weekend & HUGE congrats to everyone that competed! I returned yesterday from the long race weekend and have been getting caught up with work, as most of the country didn't have Monday off

Boston Race week

- 60.3 miles, 2 doubles, 9 runs, 1158 feet ascent

- Longest run 8 miles (62:27)

- 7 HR 30 minutes total running

- 2 fast sessions

- race B.A.A. 5k & Marathon

session 1: cinder loop- 2 x 2.52 mile tempo (with 3 minutes rest between (5:34 mile, 5:35 mile, 3:04 half mile+) (5:41 mile, 5:28 mile, 2:51 half mile +)

session 2: 1 x 800, 400, 800, 400, 400, 400, 400, 400 (2:33, 78. 2:31, 73, 71, 72, 74, 71) various recovery between, last 5 x 400 with a minute rest)

race(s)

B.A.A. 5k (Saturday) - 16:44 (5:10, 5:14, 5:27) Ouch, I went backwards in this one. I was flat all week and hoping to feel better race day, but never got going and sputtered in the last mile. All good, as my body was giving me signals earlier in the week to back off...

Boston Marathon - 3:55:21 (1:45:19 half) This was a really difficult day for my wife, as she started feeling lousy early (by mile 8) and made adjustments to finish. We ended up walking every water station in the second half and getting through the course, but it wasn't ideal. Still, this was her first Boston and she put a lot of work (several years) into qualifying. I'm super proud of her!

Next up: I will focus training on a balance of speed & endurance into weekly totals, but also add a mixture of not so serious races in the coming weeks.

All the best to everyone post Boston

Congrats everyone who ran Boston!

OR- I hear you on those comments about feeling like it being wasted time. To be honest with you, I feel the same way sometimes, and that's why I've unintentionally reduced my running to make sure I have more time for my family and friends. Running is a destressor not a stressor. While I still have running goals, I recognize that I may miss them because of outside circumstances, which are almost always higher priority (the job, family, relationships, etc.). So I don't feel as bad missing those goals. Just in this quarter alone, I prob missed 3 x 1 week of zero running which really hampered any development and improvement. And that's fine. It's literally just running... Heck, I'm signing up for a trail ultra in May, just because why not. It's just running.

^as a follow up to this, I had a huge work opportunity to move up in my job (to report directly to a senior VP). But it required me to move to Portland, OR... that means a huge sacrifice for the family, a change in lifestyle, and certainly my time (longer hours, more stress), so guess what, I've decided to just continue just being a regular worker bee here in Orlando, FL.

Can't buy time... at least not yet

Outcomes are great, butbif you can learn to enjoy process, then outcomesbwcome the cherry on top of an already delicious sundae.

You do a better job than most of enjoying the process, OR. You're just forgetting that right now because the whipped cream and cherry fell off of your sundae and onto the floor, so all that you see, naturally is what is left on the floor and, as a result, what you were deprived of. That's natural.

OR -- I understand a bit where you are right now after not finishing.

2012 was my first Boston and it was a disaster. The heat wrecked me and I should have dropped out but I didn't. I trashed myself completely and looking back, I'm lucky that I didn't end up in the hospital with likely permanent damage from pushing myself in the heat. I was determined to finish though I ran a personal worst by almost an hour. It took me months to fully recover. Not stopping was one of the stupidest things I've ever done.

I couldn't let that be my only experience in Boston. I went back in 2014. I'd had one of my best spring buildups -- matched a PR in the half, set a 5K and 10-mile PR that same spring while prepping for Boston. Then race day. It wasn't as hot as in 2012, but it wasn't ideal either. I had another bad day. Post-mortem, I think my day-before routine was off, e.g., I ate too early in the evening, was not fueled to my ideal by the time race started. Add onto it slightly too warm temps and I crashed out bad at mile 18. I dragged for at least 2 miles trying to decide if I would drop out -- I didn't want another suffer-fest to the end like in 2012 but how could I quit!? It was one of the hardest decisions I've ever made, but I finally stopped and went to the medical tent and ended upon the bus ride back to the city. Calling my spouse on someone else's cell phone to let him know I was OK but done for the day was deeply discouraging. The rest of the week, I was embarrassed and mortified to have to explain to others what happened, and even trying to be honest with myself about it was hard.

It took me a long time to quit thinking about it as a reflection on myself as a runner and even as a person; how could I let myself down like that, how could I let everyone else down like that, how could I let myself quit. I built up running a good race at Boston into the most important thing there was in my life and when I failed AGAIN, it was difficult not to beat myself up about it in every way possible. But in the 5 years since, I've managed to ,mostly put in into perspective. I got back on the road and rather than waste the entire winter's training, I ran the Vermont City race and finished in what was then my 3rd best time. That helped me start to put away the "you are a sucky runner and a failure" bad thoughts. Time, and other races since, have brought me back to normal and I can even look back at Boston 2012 and 2014 and use them positively: I know when I need to listen to my body and do the right thing; I can bounce back from a deep low; those failures doesn't define me either as a person or as a runner.

Take a little time to grieve but don't give in too long. You are a great runner (waaaay better than me!) and this doesn't change that. For sure you'll come back swinging.

It sounds like you've been wrestling with some guilt for quite a while now. That's no way to carry on with your running. Either it fits into your life and your loved ones can understand and support you or you move on. If you feel that you can take things down a notch and maybe be a little less obsessive and still find that passion to grind and be competitive then go for it. Like Smoove said it's about the process not the end goal. If the training is fun and healthy it can only add to your life but family comes first.

Just checking in with my support for OR. The man has a big heart, and that heart is packed full to overflowing. I hope he can find the right combination of ingredients to accomplish ALL of his goals.

As for me, I'm still working on getting up and down stairs.

Luckily there were no stairs on the Sam Adams Brewery tour (hiccup).

Sam Adams Brewery tour FTMFW

I handled that tour like a champ! Friend I went with couldn’t drink beer so I got all hers in addition to mine. It’s a wonder I dropped all my commemorative glasses in the way back to the train.

i'll have another wrote:

It sounds like you've been wrestling with some guilt for quite a while now. That's no way to carry on with your running. Either it fits into your life and your loved ones can understand and support you or you move on. If you feel that you can take things down a notch and maybe be a little less obsessive and still find that passion to grind and be competitive then go for it. Like Smoove said it's about the process not the end goal. If the training is fun and healthy it can only add to your life but family comes first.

Just adding on, but... it's all about balance. And there is no absolute right or wrong balance; just what is right for that person. For one person, skipping a run to go out with friends/family can be the right decision, while for another, staying in is the right choice.

You also don't have to always hit the same balance - there can be times when running becomes your top or close to your top priority, and other times when you back off and enjoy other things.

Urban Diesel wrote:

race(s)

B.A.A. 5k (Saturday) - 16:44 (5:10, 5:14, 5:27) Ouch, I went backwards in this one. I was flat all week and hoping to feel better race day, but never got going and sputtered in the last mile. All good, as my body was giving me signals earlier in the week to back off...

Boston Marathon - 3:55:21 (1:45:19 half) This was a really difficult day for my wife, as she started feeling lousy early (by mile 8) and made adjustments to finish. We ended up walking every water station in the second half and getting through the course, but it wasn't ideal. Still, this was her first Boston and she put a lot of work (several years) into qualifying. I'm super proud of her!

Too bad we didn't have a chance to catch up before/after the 5K, but that race was ridiculously crowded, and there's no way I could have found you even if I had looked. I felt like we had a headwind going out that was NOT balanced by a tailwind coming back, but I'm 90% sure that's just me whining. (one never properly appreciates a tailwind)

I would be superproud of your wife as well. That was a tough day out there, and I'm guessing the longer one was out there, the more the heat/humidity compounded things.

TL;DR

The experience was electrifying... the crowd support all along the course, the HeartBreak Hill, the feeling of running down folks on Boylston street... hadn't dreamt of that atmosphere in a marathon. Went in with a goal of 2:59:59, ran 3:19:59. One of my toughest marathons in the last 4 years. I can point at humidity or the cough/cold that I was carrying for the disappointing result; but not sure that it equates to the 16 minute positive split that I landed on.

Details:

Saturday:

- Landed at Boston on Saturday morning. Didn't sleep in the red-eye because two gentlemen seated a row behind me decided that they wanted to speak about options to double their money in 3 years for the whole duration of the flight.

- My sore throat got way worser, to the point where I was asking for warm water from the flight attendants every half an hour.

- Checked into the hotel and got in a few hours' worth of sleep before going out to Quincy market, Hanover St. (Mike's pastry is yummy) and a friend's suburban palace for dinner :).

Sunday:

- Some more site-seeing in Boston.

- Picked up my bib, met RRR and picked up the most interesting looking headband [Thanks man].

- Got my legs massaged by AirRelax, that thing is legit!!

Race day:

I had managed to snag a seat on one of the Hopkinton club buses. That meant that I did not have to wait at the Athletes' village. I basically went from hotel to the pick-up point at 7:45 am, got driven down to near the start line, used the porta-potty inside the bus, and then straight to the starting line.

Because of the heat and humidity situation, I had decided to carry a 500ml bottle of Maurten fluid and 4 ToRQ gels for consumption every 5.5 miles. The goal was to sustain the 500 ml bottle for atleast 2 hours into the marathon.

Mile splits:

7:06, 6:51, 6:52, 6:47, 7:04

6:55, 6:52, 7:04, 6:57, 7:07

7:04, 6:59, 7:02, 7:01, 7:16

6:47, 7:24, 7:36, 7:32, 7:56

8:36, 8:23, 7:41, 8:46, 8:49

9:10, 8:13 (pace for last 0.6 miles)

5K: 21:54

- Ran the first mile at 7:06 pace. I was feeling very claustrophobic with the number of people that were running alongwith me. Was worried that I was going to get tripped from behind and my Boston marathon will end in the first mile.

- As I ramped up the pace to get to MP in the 2nd mile, realized that 6:51pace was feeling harder than usual. Chalked that down to being too amped up about Boston. Hoped that things will get better in the next couple of miles.

- Hit the 5K mat. Effort is way up there..beginning to realize that I should probably reset my goal a little bit.

10K: 43:45

- In this phase, I had already decided in my head that I should start getting conservative and shoot for a 3:03 goal or sub 7 pace.

- My heart rate at this time had already breached 170, which is basically half marathon territory for me.

- I had gobbled up half of my water bottle in the first 10k..very, very thirsty at this point.

- Took my 1st gel here.

15K: 1:05:42

- Not thinking much, just plodding along.

- Trying to keep the effort and pace consistent with a 3:03 (sub 7:00) goal.

- Beginning to evaluate if I should just think of a PR (so sub 3:05)

- Finished up my bottle of water here, way ahead of schedule.

Half: 1:32:49

- Still convinced that I can negative split a a little bit and still hit the 3:05 - 3:06 range, which will guarantee me a BQ for 2020.

- It is beginning to feel hard though, so I chalk that down to general marathon tiredness. Also, hope that the ladies on the course in Wellesley will perk me up.

25K: 1:50:19

- Beginning to start thinking about bonking. Hoping that I can at least hit 3:10, 3:15 - I don't know.

- My last good mile happened here, as I find a friend who looked stronger than me. Ran down the downhill after Wellesley with some zeal, thinking that "If I can stick along with him, I can still hit a 3:10 - 3:15".

40K: 3:07:46

- Had accepted the fact that I am not running the marathon I envisioned.

- Lots of walking and lots of drinking gatorade, running was limited to "let me get to the next mile marker and then I can walk"

- Saw a friend on his haunches at mile 23. Asked him if he wants to run with me. Threw down a 7:41 mile. The friend waved me on just as we hit the mile marker. I slowed down again, with no desire to run any faster.

Finish: 3:19:59

- Heard and saw my family just before I turned left into Boylston. The only reason I heard my daughter in the midst of all the cheering from the spectators was because she was yelling "Dad" "Dad" in our native language :).

- The run on Boylston street was amazing. Felt a little bit emotional, just as I had felt 6 years back, when I finished my first marathon.

darkwave - No complaints about my performance and the weather conditions. I knew Boston would be unpredictable in terms of weather so I knew there was a good probability that I would not be able to make it my personal best. Just running and finishing Boston was an experience. I agree with you about tailwinds. If a tailwind is close to your direction and speed when temperatures and/or dewpoint is of concern then it is a net negative. I am reminded of this the past few years when I run on our beach vacations. I can run in one direction and be annoyed by the headwind and then turn around thinking I might appreciate a tailwind only to find I am running in dead air. It's just awful and the heat just builds. In Monday's race could not tell if there was much of a tailwind, but the crosswinds and headwinds were noticeable and provided for some appreciated cooling.

OR - I am sad to see that you did not get the full Boston experience. Really. Training for a marathon is a risky proposition. You can spend almost half a year training for a marathon only to have your best hopes dashed by an illness, injury, bad weather conditions, or some other unpredictable circumstances. That is the gamble we make. This is why I made CIM my goal race for going sub 3 because the weather there is reasonably consistent and I have no problem with traveling for a race. It would have been great if I were to get close to 2:55 at this years Boston, it was not to be and I am OK with that. As somebody that deals with anxiety problems, it does seem that the larger races are a problem for you and present you with some level of anxiety that you do not handle well. I will not offer any advise for you here because I think that this is something that you need to determine on your own whether or not larger races present a problem that you can handle or if you should stick with smaller races. Forget what some of my say about attending any particular race and determine if a race works for you and your personality idiosyncrasies. Good luck with whatever you choose as your as your next adventure.

RunnerSam - The Streaks felt great, but I really had to loosen the laces to the max to avoid a bad pressure point on my instep. I usually do the Lydiard lacing system and that doesn’t work with the Streak.

OR - I was thinking about this a little more, and I think most of us just run because it’s our nature. In some way, you were made to do this. The competitive stuff is great, but I don’t think that’s really what gets us out the door every morning.

——————————————

I pulled the top 300 males and a lot of people had rough second halves. I don’t know how this compares to other races, or other Bostons, however.

Thinking Chicago next maybe instead of Philly. Realized last night that I might have made the ADP.

Whole lot of respect for all of the Boston crew. It's a tough sport, it's a tough race, and I tend to think it was kind of a sneaky tough day. But you toed the line, took on the risk, and took on the hardship, and in doing that you did yourselves proud, all of you, even the ones who got your hearts broken a little bit. I mean, heartbreak is kind of a big part of the Boston tradition, isn't it?

Sub 6: Speaking of great races... I am in awe of anyone who can finish a marathon strong, but to do what you did on that course, knowing what it did to a whole lot of people on the day, wow. What a run.

jotquill: Boston is generally not a PR course. Monday was generally not a PR day. Yet you ran a PR. A strong and well-earned performance. You've taken big, bold steps with your training, and they're starting to pay off, but I honestly think you're only just scratching the surface.

SI: Another great race, to my mind, though in a different way. To come off your big run at CIM, and the somewhat rocky recovery after that, and the shortened build up that resulted, and go out and run that strong for as long as you did, and then hang tough through the hard part as well as you did, really impressive stuff.

Coach Jeff: People have mentioned the logistical difficulty of Boston, and it should be noted that flying halfway around the damn world does add a little something to that. Personally, I can't imagine running a marathon at all coming off of that kind of travel, let alone running one as bold and as tough as you did. You had a dream goal, and you gave yourself the best chance you possibly could of making it happen. And even when it didn't, you kept it together and somehow managed to pull off a double PR. A brave run, and I think you should take encouragement from it for your prospects of breaking 3 in more propitious circumstances.

cocoon: Great race report. Similar to the situation with Coach Jeff, I can't imagine running a marathon coming off a sleepless cross-country redeye flight (and a cold, to boot). Sounds like it was a tough day, but sounds like you hung tough and were able to appreciate the experience for what it was, and total respect for that. And very, very cool that you were able to hear your daughter cheering you on at the finish. Having a daughter myself, I know that the power of small girls to make themselves heard is not to be underestimated. You are a champion in her eyes.

OR: This was a really rough day for you, I know. You put a lot of heart into your running, and you got your heart broken a little bit out there. But the marathon will do that to a person, and Boston in particular, and I have no doubt you will come back stronger. That being said, I think you're right to consider the kind of race that is most likely to be a good fit for you. Personally, I totally hear you on the travel and logistics side of things. As cool as Boston and New York are, that's a definite downside. It seems like you're taking away some useful practical lessons, and I think other people have offered some very wise insights about maintaining balance, enjoying the process, and not getting overly burdened by expectations (your own or other peoples'). Just like there's a balance to strike in terms of muscle tension (too tight and you cramp up, too loose and you feel flat), there's a balance to strike in terms of mental tension, and the sweet spot is different for different people.

Finally, well done by Mrs. Stone and Mrs. Diesel. Tough running on a tough day.