V. Lombardi wrote:
Bobby Knight was a bully coach who lacked an expansive mindset to get through to his players in elevated ways. Sure he won a bunch and his former players love him. Krzyzewski is an improvement on Knight's manner, wins without humiliating or assaulting people.
Yeah he's a guy I'd never have let my kid be coached by. I can see myself punching that ahole out at first meeting
It has never been okay for a coach to strike an athlete. (Okay, I guess if the athlete were attacking the coach...).
We are way too soft wrote:
I love this story.
It is ridiculous for anyone to tell Joanie tha that is not what she needed. SHE SAID IT WAS. I would say that one of the best female athletes ever and an American icon may know a little better than you.
Okay, for every athlete who is okay with it there are scores more who would not be.
So if you walked into work tired on Monday from running a marathon on Sunday and your boss punched you, you would be okay with that? What about if it happened to your wife or girlfriend or daughter?
I call anyone who would be okay with it a liar.
There are other ways to discipline a person to change the behaviors.
1955 wrote:
The coach was wrong. It's never OK for a coach or a teacher to physically assault one of the people they are supposed to be helping. Nor should they mock or belittle them, and, of course, sexual assault is off the table.
Why do we expect less from coaches than we expect from other members of society when it comes to this kind of stuff?
HEAR, HEAR!
V. Lombardi wrote:
Bobby Knight was a bully coach who lacked an expansive mindset to get through to his players in elevated ways. Sure he won a bunch and his former players love him. Krzyzewski is an improvement on Knight's manner, wins without humiliating or assaulting people.
Knight is a c omplex person (like most). Some of his behaviors were way beyond the pale, but behind the scenes he did a lot for his players. By the time his behaviors were well-known (and should have been disciplined by the university many times), I got tired of players complaining about his behavior when it had been well-documented. At some point, they signed for it unless they were too stupid to notice.
Not an excuse, but if you played for Knight after Season on the Brink came out and after the chair throwing incident and complained about his actions, I have no sympathy for you.
Old guy here. I think it can be agreed that it's a positive development that coaches no longer have license to punch an athlete. I don't think that was ever common, but it's good that it's almost unheard of today.
However, the fact that Benoit had the ability to shrug such an event off was undoubtedly a part of her mental makeup that helped her as an athlete, and something that many (most? all?) young athletes struggle with today. Staying focused despite discomfort, dealing with unfairness, being held very accountable to a high standard--you can make a case that a Bob Knight style coach was once able to develop these traits to a degree that is not possible now. Punching is certainly not a desirable way to build these traits, but I wonder if these traits are being developed much at all in today's "supportive" sports environments.
Creating a hyper-intense and uncompromising environment where athletes have no choice but to rise above their perceived limitations is how coaches used to see their job. Hell, that process what most sports movies are all about--Hoosiers, Remember the Titans, Miracle, etc etc. It's how we used to see the way a coach and team functioned. "Vince Lombardi treats us all the same--like dogs," etc.
It's undoubtedly true that some old-school coaches also used "being demanding" as an excuse to venture into general assholery (Bobby Knight did this I believe). But it's also true that today's coaches can't demand the same kind of accountability and intensity that was typical 30 years ago. And it's possible that this represents a real loss. Today the role of the coach is to "help" kids, "mentor" kids, "support" kids. That's certainly what most young people expect. And I'd say, yes, absolutely these things are important, but it used to be that these roles were secondary to the idea that coaches were supposed to challenge kids and hold them accountable to a high standard. Your friends and teammates were there for support. Your coach was supposed to make you great.
Apparently, it was corrected. The article now says “benched.”
Generation Gap wrote:
Old guy here. I think it can be agreed that it's a positive development that coaches no longer have license to punch an athlete. I don't think that was ever common, but it's good that it's almost unheard of today.
However, the fact that Benoit had the ability to shrug such an event off was undoubtedly a part of her mental makeup that helped her as an athlete, and something that many (most? all?) young athletes struggle with today. Staying focused despite discomfort, dealing with unfairness, being held very accountable to a high standard--you can make a case that a Bob Knight style coach was once able to develop these traits to a degree that is not possible now. Punching is certainly not a desirable way to build these traits, but I wonder if these traits are being developed much at all in today's "supportive" sports environments.
Creating a hyper-intense and uncompromising environment where athletes have no choice but to rise above their perceived limitations is how coaches used to see their job. Hell, that process what most sports movies are all about--Hoosiers, Remember the Titans, Miracle, etc etc. It's how we used to see the way a coach and team functioned. "Vince Lombardi treats us all the same--like dogs," etc.
It's undoubtedly true that some old-school coaches also used "being demanding" as an excuse to venture into general assholery (Bobby Knight did this I believe). But it's also true that today's coaches can't demand the same kind of accountability and intensity that was typical 30 years ago. And it's possible that this represents a real loss. Today the role of the coach is to "help" kids, "mentor" kids, "support" kids. That's certainly what most young people expect. And I'd say, yes, absolutely these things are important, but it used to be that these roles were secondary to the idea that coaches were supposed to challenge kids and hold them accountable to a high standard. Your friends and teammates were there for support. Your coach was supposed to make you great.
Very well said.
Interesting thread but... wrote:
Apparently, it was corrected. The article now says “benched.”
Not surprising that Rojo hasn't corrected his quotes of the article now that he knows them to be false.
seemed obvious to begin with wrote:
Interesting thread but... wrote:
Apparently, it was corrected. The article now says “benched.”
Not surprising that Rojo hasn't corrected his quotes of the article now that he knows them to be false.
Deer Rojo: are you going to acknowledge that this thread is built on a lie?
Oh, well that's different. Never mind.
Just an I deal wrote:
offtopicoffmyhead wrote:
For being such a good runner Joan had really low vo2Max.
Derek Clayton too, He held the marathon record for 14 years.
Fact police:
Joan had the highest recorded VO2 max for a female runner ever!!
If you look at the article today, the part about being punched is EDITED OUT--and changed from "punched" to "benched"!
Currently, as of today, 4/14:
“Back then you couldn’t substitute players except at half time and [my coach] Sally LaPointe pulled me off the field and benched me because I was so tired that I could hardly move off the line,” Samuelson said.
Original article posted by the brojos:
“Back then you couldn’t substitute players except at half time and [my coach] Sally LaPointe pulled me off the field and punched me because I was so tired that I could hardly move off the line,” Samuelson said.
Yeah, but most LR Posers still wish Trump had punched her. Facts don't matter.
Deer Rojo wrote:
seemed obvious to begin with wrote:
Not surprising that Rojo hasn't corrected his quotes of the article now that he knows them to be false.
Deer Rojo: are you going to acknowledge that this thread is built on a lie?
Nope, guess not.
standing by it wrote:
Deer Rojo wrote:
Deer Rojo: are you going to acknowledge that this thread is built on a lie?
Nope, guess not.
Fake News Media Coverage!
YeahBut... wrote:
Yeah, but most LR Posers still wish Trump had punched her. Facts don't matter.
Just punch em in the pussie.
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year