Why do people still think heel striking is bad?

Heel striking FTW wrote:

... Two, landing under your center of gravity/don't over stride. This is one of the most absurd statements to make. In order to go forward, you have to take a step forward. If one landed under their center of gravity, they would just be running in place. ...

When running or walking, one leans forward, which shifts their center of gravity in front of their feet. I don't know whether or not landing right under your center of gravity is ideal, but it is an absurd statement to say that landing under one's center of gravity would result in standing still.

Walking is the quintessential heel striking form.

Walking is a double support phase, and running is a single support phase.

If you want to walk, go ahead. It isn't going to win you any medals - except in walking events.

Heel striking puts more stress on your body, and is slower. Go ahead, the rest of us don't care what you do.

Henry Rono - heel striker

John Ngugi - heel striker

Joaquim Cruz - heel striker

Abebe Bikila - heel striker

Noureddine Morceli - heel striker

I could go on and on. But you should get the point.

0/10

Heel striking wrote:

Henry Rono - heel striker

John Ngugi - heel striker

Joaquim Cruz - heel striker

Abebe Bikila - heel striker

Noureddine Morceli - heel striker

I could go on and on. But you should get the point.

David Rudisha - forefoot striker

El Guerrouj - forefoot striker

Daniel Komen - ehhhh

Kenenisa Bekele - forefoot striker

Abraham Kiptum - never seen him run, but Z. Tadese was a heel striker with a soft WR

Eliud Kipchoge - forefoot striker

I could go on and on, but these guys are the fastest ever.

Point taken. But this does not address the fact that all the names you have listed could run faster if they did not heel strike.

Funsics wrote:

Heel striking FTW wrote:

... Two, landing under your center of gravity/don't over stride. This is one of the most absurd statements to make. In order to go forward, you have to take a step forward. If one landed under their center of gravity, they would just be running in place. ...

When running or walking, one leans forward, which shifts their center of gravity in front of their feet. I don't know whether or not landing right under your center of gravity is ideal, but it is an absurd statement to say that landing under one's center of gravity would result in standing still.

No, you're wrong and he's right. Think about it instead of just posting nonsense.

ForeFather wrote:

Point taken. But this does not address the fact that all the names you have listed could run faster if they did not heel strike.

No, it's their natural footsrike. Telling someone their natural gait is wrong is like telling a 7 foot tall man to correct his height.

doot doot wrote:

Heel striking wrote:

Henry Rono - heel striker

John Ngugi - heel striker

Joaquim Cruz - heel striker

Abebe Bikila - heel striker

Noureddine Morceli - heel striker

I could go on and on. But you should get the point.

David Rudisha - forefoot striker

El Guerrouj - forefoot striker

Daniel Komen - ehhhh

Kenenisa Bekele - forefoot striker

Abraham Kiptum - never seen him run, but Z. Tadese was a heel striker with a soft WR

Eliud Kipchoge - forefoot striker

I could go on and on, but these guys are the fastest ever.

You and 99% of other people are not these guys.

Strike the Heel wrote:

doot doot wrote:

David Rudisha - forefoot striker

El Guerrouj - forefoot striker

Daniel Komen - ehhhh

Kenenisa Bekele - forefoot striker

Abraham Kiptum - never seen him run, but Z. Tadese was a heel striker with a soft WR

Eliud Kipchoge - forefoot striker

I could go on and on, but these guys are the fastest ever.

You and 99% of other people are not these guys.

What is your point?

If we took a random sample of 100 athletes that run between 27:00-28:00 for 10k and another random sample of 100 athletes that run 37:00 - 38:00 for 10k do you think we would see any tendency for forefoot versus heel striking between the groups? Why might that be?

___

Analogy time:

doot doot wrote:

Heel striking wrote:

Henry Rono - heel striker

John Ngugi - heel striker

Joaquim Cruz - heel striker

Abebe Bikila - heel striker

Noureddine Morceli - heel striker

I could go on and on. But you should get the point.

David Rudisha - forefoot striker

El Guerrouj - forefoot striker

Daniel Komen - ehhhh

Kenenisa Bekele - forefoot striker

Abraham Kiptum - never seen him run, but Z. Tadese was a heel striker with a soft WR

Eliud Kipchoge - forefoot striker

I could go on and on, but these guys are the fastest ever.

El Guerrouj is a heel striker. Rono is not.

this one again wrote:

Funsics wrote:

When running or walking, one leans forward, which shifts their center of gravity in front of their feet. I don't know whether or not landing right under your center of gravity is ideal, but it is an absurd statement to say that landing under one's center of gravity would result in standing still.

No, you're wrong and he's right. Think about it instead of just posting nonsense.

You can land behind your centre of gravity and still move forward. This is abundantly clear and easily provable by going to the extreme and land way behind you centre of gravity. You still can move forward because you can still push off.

Under your logic, if one lands behind their centre of gravity, they would only be able to go backwards.

Noureddine Morceli

Carlos Lopes

John Treacy

Charlie Spedding

Rod Dixon

Paul Tergat

Alberto Salazar

Pete Pfitzinger

Mark Nenow

Joan Benoit

Grete waitz

Thom Hunt

Dan Dillon

Jan Merrill

Greg Meyer

Dathan Ritzenhein

Mebrahtom Keflezighi

Abderrahim Goumri

Abebe Bekila

Abdi Abdirahman

George Malley

El G

Abubaker Kaki

Miruts Yifter

Vebjorn Rodahl

Joachim Cruz

John Ngugi

Zersenay Tadese

Samuel Tsegay

doot doot wrote:

Strike the Heel wrote:

You and 99% of other people are not these guys.

What is your point?

If we took a random sample of 100 athletes that run between 27:00-28:00 for 10k and another random sample of 100 athletes that run 37:00 - 38:00 for 10k do you think we would see any tendency for forefoot versus heel striking between the groups? Why might that be?

___

Analogy time:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fosbury_Flop

Because they are faster and more talented. Forefoot striking does not create speed and talent it's a byproduct of it.

37-38 minute people probably forefoot strike when they do sprints at 27-28 pace.

The new world record at the half marathon, looks to me to be a heel striker.

Mutai at the NYC Marathon:

Juma Ikangaa at the 89 NYC Marathon(go to 5:20):

Kipsang:

Heel striking FTW wrote:

But if you make some jogging run like someone running much faster, all you are doing is wasting energy. Energy, running like this bouncing motion they promote just waste energy. Most hobby joggers are better off heel striking. And, this is not a bad thing. To say heel striking is bad, means you are a stupid person who does not understand the biomechnics of human beings.

1. Heel striking with knee fully extended and toe dorsiflexed up in the air at landing is a prescription for injury.

2. Just barely heel striking with the knees bent is okay. Some pros run like this or else they run so close to a heel strike it's hard to tell without a super slow motion video.

3. Heel striking is MORE efficient at slower paces.

4. Heel strikers must switch to forefoot strike to kick effectively. If you can't switch to forefoot, then you can only overstride to kick. You'll get outkicked by a forefoot striker who can hang with you until the last 100m.

About 15-20 years ago, I was a severe heel striker. I noticed that when kicking at the end of a 5k, I switched to forefoot strike. It occurred to me that if I could run faster with a forefoot strike at the end of a race, maybe I should be doing the entire race on my forefoot. I switched to forefoot strike over a period of several months. Now, even my slow recovery runs are done on the forefoot. My results were...

PRO: I eliminated my chronic runner's knee problems that had bothered me for 10 years. I became much faster... a world class age grouper in the 200, 400, 800, and good enough in the 1500m to set a state record.

CON: I am now very inefficient at slow paces. I bounce so badly at recovery pace that I can't see the TV screen on a treadmill. I can't run with my friends because I only have two speeds... glacially slow and very fast. Marathon pace is a no mans land for me.

Few things:

The running gait is extremely complicated.

Heelstriking isn't even a clearly defined term. Some refer to the heel touching first as heel striking, others say the heel has to take most of the load (which can only be measured with pressure plates, not with slow motion video).

The Lieberman research on shod vs. unshod running has been pretty seriously challenged. It's not clear at all that shoes cause us to hit the ground too hard and overload ourselves. It is clear, however, that cushioning makes runners more efficient, probably by doing passively some of the work that would otherwise be done by metabolically costly eccentric muscle contractions.

A consensus is evolving that heelstriking isn't per se bad. The prevailing wisdom now is that there is, however, such thing as overstriding, and that it correlates with a more pronounced heel strike, but it is possible to heelstrike without overstriding. Overstriding is related to injuries.

Raising cadence is likely to reduce heelstriking and can alleviate or prevent injuries because the total load on the leg per foot strike is lower. It's not clear that raising cadence makes you any more efficient over the long term. It probably makes you less efficient over the short term (just like all other conscious manipulations of running form).

Improving form generally requires some form of PT-like exercises. Form tends to be a result of your body. If you have strength and flexibility problems, you might have "bad" form that will slow you down and raise your injury risk. But your bad form is probably the best possible form for the body you have right now. The way to get better form is to get a better body.

Heel striking is here to stay wrote:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=w_Nygi01VqI

You are not looking closely. Slow to 0.25 speed and go 20 seconds into that video, and I see Bikila landing what is best described as flat - some steps were clearly forefoot, but close to flat overall.

A lot of of flat foot strikers are being labeled heel strikers because it looks that way without slow motion. They're toe up until the last moment, then pivot down to flat or even forefoot. Rono, ElG, Morceli are all like this. Patrick Makau is another, and there is actual slo-mo video of him that shows how it looks in slo-mo: