Another Kenyan Charged With Doping

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cleans wrote:

My take:

Some Kenyans will dope with EPO because it can improve their performance (sorry Renato) and they could win some prize money (most of which Mr Rosa will take).

Brits won't get busted, as they have Loughborough Uni and UK Sport, providing and funding respectively largely undetectable doping analogues which will be used in lieu of 'traditional' PEDs such as EPO.

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I bet there are a good number of amateur runners who dope.

I had a friend I ran with who used to take a testosterone booster before we would go run. He said it made him feel great. That's doping..., and he definitely was not a pro.

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Mevadus wrote:

I bet there are a good number of amateur runners who dope.

I had a friend I ran with who used to take a testosterone booster before we would go run. He said it made him feel great. That's doping..., and he definitely was not a pro.

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back in the day, people would take b vitamin injections,

somehow that was OK right across the board.

that's PEDs. 100 per cent.

but totally approved.

totally bogus.

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longjack wrote:

no, drug testing is a total quagmire.

people like coe, radcliffe, and everyone else were taking vitamins, herbs, concentrated organ extracts, altitude tents, aming acids you name it.

to do what?

keep em healthy, recover, recover from injury, and above all else, enhance performance.

the mantra is, if it works very well, ban it.

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UK Sport financially underpin British medal-chasing sports like rowing, cycling, athletics. This year, UK Sport have requested 3 billion GBP to fund the latest tranche of promising or proven athletes.

Loughborough University is where many of the athletes are sent to for their preparation. An example is Adam Peaty: a skinny teenager in 2013, he was sent by his coach to nearby Loughborough Uni, who put him on their Olympic programme. Over a period of months, he transformed into perhaps the most dominant breast-stroke swimmer the world has ever seen. If we assume that no illegal drugs were involved in his rise, then either:
a) doping doesn't really help (otherwise other doped swimmers would get close to or beat Peaty)
or
b) the sports scientists at Loughborough have found legitimate analogues of banned PEDs.

Note that tens of millions of GBP have been invested in Loughborough Uni research precisely to find 'legitimate' ways of improving performance; and it would be naive to think that not one of the research programmes has delivered some positive outcome.

Note also that there is recorded evidence of British athletes being given thyroid medication, carnitine infusions, cortico-steroids, asthma drugs, etc. when these athletes have not medically needed it. Indeed, some have after the fact complained about being pressurised into accepting these treatments. Moreover, there are 'legal' drugs like synachten, actovegin and oxilofrine which are believed to be performance-enhancing and have a history of usage in boxing, cycling, and athletics.

Kenyan athletes mostly don't have access to a powerful SOTA sports science and funding infrastructure like Loughborough/UK Sport, and so it is no surprise that some might be tempted to (or pressured to) use simpler more traditional doping products like EPO in order to even the playing field - assuming of course that one believes that 'financial doping' through UK Sport creates an uneven playing field. (Olympic medal progression for the UK from 1996-2016 would suggest that it does.)

^^
(Above is a reply to the request from the user 'Inquiring Minds Want To Know')

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cleans wrote:

UK Sport financially underpin British medal-chasing sports like rowing, cycling, athletics. This year, UK Sport have requested 3 billion GBP to fund the latest tranche of promising or proven athletes.

Loughborough University is where many of the athletes are sent to for their preparation. An example is Adam Peaty: a skinny teenager in 2013, he was sent by his coach to nearby Loughborough Uni, who put him on their Olympic programme. Over a period of months, he transformed into perhaps the most dominant breast-stroke swimmer the world has ever seen. If we assume that no illegal drugs were involved in his rise, then either:
a) doping doesn't really help (otherwise other doped swimmers would get close to or beat Peaty)
or
b) the sports scientists at Loughborough have found legitimate analogues of banned PEDs.

Note that tens of millions of GBP have been invested in Loughborough Uni research precisely to find 'legitimate' ways of improving performance; and it would be naive to think that not one of the research programmes has delivered some positive outcome.

Note also that there is recorded evidence of British athletes being given thyroid medication, carnitine infusions, cortico-steroids, asthma drugs, etc. when these athletes have not medically needed it. Indeed, some have after the fact complained about being pressurised into accepting these treatments. Moreover, there are 'legal' drugs like synachten, actovegin and oxilofrine which are believed to be performance-enhancing and have a history of usage in boxing, cycling, and athletics.

Kenyan athletes mostly don't have access to a powerful SOTA sports science and funding infrastructure like Loughborough/UK Sport, and so it is no surprise that some might be tempted to (or pressured to) use simpler more traditional doping products like EPO in order to even the playing field - assuming of course that one believes that 'financial doping' through UK Sport creates an uneven playing field. (Olympic medal progression for the UK from 1996-2016 would suggest that it does.)

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cleans wrote:

Kenyan athletes mostly don't have access to a powerful SOTA sports science and funding infrastructure like Loughborough/UK Sport, and so it is no surprise that some might be tempted to (or pressured to) use simpler more traditional doping products like EPO in order to even the playing field - assuming of course that one believes that 'financial doping' through UK Sport creates an uneven playing field. (Olympic medal progression for the UK from 1996-2016 would suggest that it does.)

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Good question around Russia. I guess up until very recently it was far easier to buy off the +ves through Diack and his acolytes.

There might also be the fact that Russia is a far larger country. It's easy for UK athletes to get to Loughborough and continue to be based near their homes/coaches. Peaty, for instance, was brought up less than an hour from Loughborough.

My guess, though, is it's far easier to use 'traditional' doping and just buy off those who might reveal the truth - as seems to have been the case with Russia and the IAAF until maybe 4-5 years ago.

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Coevett wrote:

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cleans wrote:

Kenyan athletes mostly don't have access to a powerful SOTA sports science and funding infrastructure like Loughborough/UK Sport, and so it is no surprise that some might be tempted to (or pressured to) use simpler more traditional doping products like EPO in order to even the playing field - assuming of course that one believes that 'financial doping' through UK Sport creates an uneven playing field. (Olympic medal progression for the UK from 1996-2016 would suggest that it does.)

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The old argument that we should let those poor Kenyans dope themselves silly (and many of them dying suddenly in their youth) to 'level the playing field' (which results in domination by faceless East Africans with 200 twitter followers and the death of the sport).

But why stop there? Surely Europeans should be allowed to dope themselves too to 'level the playing field' in relation to those superior East African genes, or at least the benefits of living at altitude? Isn't it unfair that only 0.1% population of the world get the benefits of 'altitude doping'?

Kenyans also have the advantage of the top Italian coaches like Canova going there to train local talent. Maybe we should force top European coaches to only coach European talent etc.?

When was the last Samoan Olympic Marathon champion? Lets allow Samoans EPO to the max, start feeding little Samoan kids EPO from birth and get Canova to train them, while diverting 100 million from the UK lottery funds to the Samoan athletics association to produce Olympic talent? Let's level the playing field for Samoans.

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Not Buying It wrote:

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Geo dood wrote:

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Let's Think This One Through wrote:

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Geo dood wrote:

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Argh yes way wrote:

I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.

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Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.

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Who?

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PAUL CHELIMO

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Paul Chelimo is a KENYAN TRANSPLANT!

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Coevett wrote:

Apologies to anybody I've offended with my anti-doping posts in the past. I now believe all drugs should be legal and we should just let the East Africans get on with it, eh? Lets not be racist.

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Subway Surfers wrote:

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Not Buying It wrote:

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Geo dood wrote:

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Let's Think This One Through wrote:

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Geo dood wrote:

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Argh yes way wrote:

I also look at numbers online and they don't lie, so...let's try this another way: Rutto's PB is 13:03.44 - only 8 Americans have been faster with no American beating that time in the last 4 yrs.

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Uhhhh an American ran faster than that less than a year ago.

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Who?

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PAUL CHELIMO

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Paul Chelimo is a KENYAN TRANSPLANT!

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This is interesting, of recent Chelimo has been not only the best American but the best indigenous Kenyan 5,000m runner. I will go out on a limb and say there is a chance he is clean. An Olympic silver medallist, WC bronze medallist and he got smashed by both Berega, Gebrhiwet and Kejelcha by like 100m. That is the difference between someone subject to mediocre testing in the US and the scandalously lousy Ethiopian testing.

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Subway Surfers wrote:
This is interesting, of recent Chelimo has been not only the best American but the best indigenous Kenyan 5,000m runner. I will go out on a limb and say there is a chance he is clean.

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Subway Surfers wrote:
An Olympic silver medallist, WC bronze medallist and he got smashed by both Berega, Gebrhiwet and Kejelcha by like 100m. That is the difference between someone subject to mediocre testing in the US and the scandalously lousy Ethiopian testing.

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Some news feeds on Rutto:

https://youtu.be/l4-AoBADMTw

https://www.foxsports.com/other/story/kenyan-runner-cyrus-rutto-suspended-in-doping-case-041119

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cleans wrote:

UK Sport financially underpin British medal-chasing sports like rowing, cycling, athletics. This year, UK Sport have requested 3 billion GBP to fund the latest tranche of promising or proven athletes.

Loughborough University is where many of the athletes are sent to for their preparation. An example is Adam Peaty: a skinny teenager in 2013, he was sent by his coach to nearby Loughborough Uni, who put him on their Olympic programme. Over a period of months, he transformed into perhaps the most dominant breast-stroke swimmer the world has ever seen. If we assume that no illegal drugs were involved in his rise, then either:
a) doping doesn't really help (otherwise other doped swimmers would get close to or beat Peaty)
or
b) the sports scientists at Loughborough have found legitimate analogues of banned PEDs.

Note that tens of millions of GBP have been invested in Loughborough Uni research precisely to find 'legitimate' ways of improving performance; and it would be naive to think that not one of the research programmes has delivered some positive outcome.

Note also that there is recorded evidence of British athletes being given thyroid medication, carnitine infusions, cortico-steroids, asthma drugs, etc. when these athletes have not medically needed it. Indeed, some have after the fact complained about being pressurised into accepting these treatments. Moreover, there are 'legal' drugs like synachten, actovegin and oxilofrine which are believed to be performance-enhancing and have a history of usage in boxing, cycling, and athletics.

Kenyan athletes mostly don't have access to a powerful SOTA sports science and funding infrastructure like Loughborough/UK Sport, and so it is no surprise that some might be tempted to (or pressured to) use simpler more traditional doping products like EPO in order to even the playing field - assuming of course that one believes that 'financial doping' through UK Sport creates an uneven playing field. (Olympic medal progression for the UK from 1996-2016 would suggest that it does.)

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El Keniano wrote:

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cleans wrote:

UK Sport financially underpin British medal-chasing sports like rowing, cycling, athletics. This year, UK Sport have requested 3 billion GBP to fund the latest tranche of promising or proven athletes.

Loughborough University is where many of the athletes are sent to for their preparation. An example is Adam Peaty: a skinny teenager in 2013, he was sent by his coach to nearby Loughborough Uni, who put him on their Olympic programme. Over a period of months, he transformed into perhaps the most dominant breast-stroke swimmer the world has ever seen. If we assume that no illegal drugs were involved in his rise, then either:
a) doping doesn't really help (otherwise other doped swimmers would get close to or beat Peaty)
or
b) the sports scientists at Loughborough have found legitimate analogues of banned PEDs.

Note that tens of millions of GBP have been invested in Loughborough Uni research precisely to find 'legitimate' ways of improving performance; and it would be naive to think that not one of the research programmes has delivered some positive outcome.

Note also that there is recorded evidence of British athletes being given thyroid medication, carnitine infusions, cortico-steroids, asthma drugs, etc. when these athletes have not medically needed it. Indeed, some have after the fact complained about being pressurised into accepting these treatments. Moreover, there are 'legal' drugs like synachten, actovegin and oxilofrine which are believed to be performance-enhancing and have a history of usage in boxing, cycling, and athletics.

Kenyan athletes mostly don't have access to a powerful SOTA sports science and funding infrastructure like Loughborough/UK Sport, and so it is no surprise that some might be tempted to (or pressured to) use simpler more traditional doping products like EPO in order to even the playing field - assuming of course that one believes that 'financial doping' through UK Sport creates an uneven playing field. (Olympic medal progression for the UK from 1996-2016 would suggest that it does.)

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STATE-SPONSORED DOPING! Team Sky was just the tip of the iceberg. Britain should be banned along with Russia when Coe gets kicked out of office next year. Seriously, Lamine Diack and Primo Nebiolo were Boy Scouts compared to these Brits.

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Coevett wrote:

blah

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