I don't know why people hate or love him. He seems pretty good. But the fanboys claiming he is great kind of detract from the discussion, because pretending he's won multiple Olympic medals, or a slew of majors, is rather ludicrous, or pretending that he has set major world records, or anything remotely like that, is just odd.
trooth balm wrote:
Listen up folks, I'm gonna educate you on Rupp being disliked, and do so in a civilized manner:
First, he is without a doubt the finest distance runner the US has ever produced. 3:50 indoor mile (are you kidding me?) to sub 13 5k, to insane 26:4xx 10k (this will never be approached by a native born American (i.e. kenyan imports don't count), to consistently fast and tough marathoner with 2:06 PR.
2 Olympic medals.
NO American has ever been as competitive from mile to marathon, especially in the African era, as Rupp.
CASE CLOSED: objectively, our finest product EVER. The angry brit poster above is correct.
It is HOW he has achieved that greatness that bothers people. Do the ends justify the means?
Problems for Rupp:
1. Privileged status--He has been professionally coached by maniacal Salazar since HS--that was always going to make him an "outsider" to the running community, even while he has always been the ultimate "insider" in terms of access to Nike's resources.
He is not RELATABLE to the average US track nerd--i.e. those who were born in the USA, ran XC and track at a US HS, some of whom then went on to run in college, very few of whom went on to run professionally. Rupp's experience is totally foreign to basically all his fellow athletes, even his fellow pros.
2. Salazar--love him or hate him, there is tons of smoke coming from this guy, and it shadows all of Rupp's success.
Sending Rupp medications in hollowed out books.
Bullying his way to improper IV usage at meets.
L-carnitine infusion shenanigans.
Personally massaging Rupp privately, while all other athletes are massaged by a pro masseuse.
Having a huge basement collection of pharmaceuticals at his house.
Dispensing rx pharmaceuticals to athletes.
Testing testosterone detect-ability on his own son.
A huge trail of angry and accusatory ex-associates, a la Lance Armstrong.
The list goes on, but he point is: even if there is never a "smoking gun" event like Aden getting busted with loads of EPO, or an actual drug test positive, the whole sordid list just doesn't create joy and enthusiasm for his feats.
3. His own poor charisma-- He is not attractive. He does not have a charming personality.
These facts are undeniable, but leave the poor guy alone.
These factors are out of his control.
And the fact that he is certainly AWARE of how much everyone distrusts him leads to awkward and insecure media encounters, especially with knowledgeable outlets like LRC--makes him even more of a poor interview.
I make no judgement on whether or not he has crossed the line from gray-area boundary-pushing with Salazar to outright cheating--I don't know the truth and I don't care to worry about it.
In the end, it is how we are judged by our peers that matters in terms of legacy. As far as I can tell, Rupp gets an extremely frosty reception from his fellow American competitors.
Thanks for this civilized post. The 3 reasons you posted capture the majority opinion of the haters.
Regarding #1, it is 100% false. Privileged status? give me a break. Are you saying that someone has to be coached by a loser no-name dad high school coach in order to be an "insider"? That's perpetuating the Brojo-like mentality of a "blue-collar" runner vs "white-collar" runner. That you have to run 8x1 mile in the snow and run badger miles and uphill both ways in order to be considered a "tough" runner. How is Salazar not an insider to the running world? He himself was a competitive, professional runner. This is not like Trump, who had no experience in politics, who then won the presidency out of nowhere. That is what you call an outsider. Or consider a job interview. Companies look for people who have relevant experience. They don't care about 20 years of experience in another industry. How many years of experience do you have in this one? Call Salazar any name you want, but you can't deny that he has relevant experience in distance running.
Not relatable because he didn't run XC in high school? He ran XC all throughout high school. And then went on to compete at Oregon.
By the way, out of all of the 100+ guys that went through the Central Catholic High School XC program, how come none of them except Rupp became a distance running legend? I mean, according to you, they were all privileged to have Salazar as a coach, right?
The only reason Rupp is foreign to other fellow athletes is because they act socially awkward around him. Plain and simple.
Regarding #2, unfortunately, none of those bullet points have been shown to unfairly boost performance.
Regarding #3, that is a subjective view from a fan's perspective. Because distance running is not really a spectator sport, the spectator doesn't have as much say. So the people that complain are wasting their breath. We all know that most of our own running accomplishments go largely unnoticed and unappreciated. If you run a PR at a local 10k and then come into the office, some fat guy in your office actually gets more attention than you saying how he "ran" the race. It's a tragedy that people don't care about our 30:xx minute 10ks vs the fat guy's 50 min 10k. But if the same goes for us, then the same goes for Galen. It's simply not a spectator sport and therefore the people who complain are too shortsighted to see that it's unreasonable to expect a 5 star service waiter at a highway diner.
dontundertsand wrote:
I don't know why people hate or love him. He seems pretty good. But the fanboys claiming he is great kind of detract from the discussion, because pretending he's won multiple Olympic medals, or a slew of majors, is rather ludicrous, or pretending that he has set major world records, or anything remotely like that, is just odd.
I don’t think anyone is ever genuinely saying he’s the goat. But he is the goat American distance runner when you take into account his competition, fast times over a large range of events, medals, and ARs.
ThatAverageRunner wrote:
-nothing to do with Rupp.
-Although it does make Salazar look bad that he's coached champions and said that, he's still mostly correct. Most champions are probably on something.
-?
-You bringing up the 'likely doping' think shows you don't understand how that program works. So you lose some points there.
-Could you link this? I haven't seen that. Also, if that did happen, can we be sure that testosterone levels don't naturally fluctuate a little bit during heavy training including lifting and 130mpw? I don't know and I'm guessing you don't know either.
- shows that his coach was the coach of a testo drug cheat - I would stay away, far away
- agreed
- according to USADA, the group including Rupp highly likely exceed the legal injection limit, which can be lead to a ban of 2 years (if unintentional) or 4 years
- "Likely doping: Considering the information within the Athlete’s Passport, it is likely that the Passport is the result the Use of a Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method and it is highly unlikely that it may be the result of a normal physiological or pathological condition." - "highly unlikely" that he was clean - I call that a smoking gun
- the testo spike was large enough to trigger the ABP alarm for the 2nd time at least, see the USADA leaked report/draft - - I call that a smoking gun
Remember we are talking about smoking guns, not final proof.
ThatAverageRunner wrote:
I don’t think anyone is ever genuinely saying he’s the goat. But he is the goat American distance runner when you take into account his competition, fast times over a large range of events, medals, and ARs.
I would give the edge to Lagat, with Khannouchi a close second, Rupp third.
But I understand your argument with the large range.
Either way, he is clearly one of the top Americans - I don't understand the hate and disrespect either.
Banana Bread wrote:
Actually he would have done 2:07 if he finished Amsterdam. I don't think anyone could run that fast if they had as little training done as he did and had his injuries. Leading a 2:04 race until 30k with injuries and only a few weeks proper training proves how good he is. When Bekele's injuries go and he gets in good training he will literally blow the doors off Saladbar's van.
Classic
casual obsever wrote:
Agreed, with the exception that there already were several smoking guns:
- testo drug cheat Decker coached by Salazar at the time
- Salazar's presentation that one basically can't win without doping
- the usage of the forbidden method, risking bans of four years
- Rupp classed as 'likely doper' by the IAAF
- Rupp caught with a testo spike during his marathon build-up
- ...
Given that the IAAF only sees 1% of doping, this is likely Rupp's opening paragraph.
Bullet_Proof wrote:
remoter wrote:
He's a long time science project of a shady coach/human that has coached athletes that have cheated before, been found with needles at training camp, exceeded IV limits, and tested how much testosterone triggers a positive test on his son (conveniently, his prized pupil was noted for needing testosterone medication).
yawn.
Resounding rebuttal from the fanboy.
Bullet_Proof wrote:
trooth balm wrote:
Listen up folks, I'm gonna educate you on Rupp being disliked, and do so in a civilized manner:
First, he is without a doubt the finest distance runner the US has ever produced. 3:50 indoor mile (are you kidding me?) to sub 13 5k, to insane 26:4xx 10k (this will never be approached by a native born American (i.e. kenyan imports don't count), to consistently fast and tough marathoner with 2:06 PR.
2 Olympic medals.
NO American has ever been as competitive from mile to marathon, especially in the African era, as Rupp.
CASE CLOSED: objectively, our finest product EVER. The angry brit poster above is correct.
It is HOW he has achieved that greatness that bothers people. Do the ends justify the means?
Problems for Rupp:
1. Privileged status--He has been professionally coached by maniacal Salazar since HS--that was always going to make him an "outsider" to the running community, even while he has always been the ultimate "insider" in terms of access to Nike's resources.
He is not RELATABLE to the average US track nerd--i.e. those who were born in the USA, ran XC and track at a US HS, some of whom then went on to run in college, very few of whom went on to run professionally. Rupp's experience is totally foreign to basically all his fellow athletes, even his fellow pros.
2. Salazar--love him or hate him, there is tons of smoke coming from this guy, and it shadows all of Rupp's success.
Sending Rupp medications in hollowed out books.
Bullying his way to improper IV usage at meets.
L-carnitine infusion shenanigans.
Personally massaging Rupp privately, while all other athletes are massaged by a pro masseuse.
Having a huge basement collection of pharmaceuticals at his house.
Dispensing rx pharmaceuticals to athletes.
Testing testosterone detect-ability on his own son.
A huge trail of angry and accusatory ex-associates, a la Lance Armstrong.
The list goes on, but he point is: even if there is never a "smoking gun" event like Aden getting busted with loads of EPO, or an actual drug test positive, the whole sordid list just doesn't create joy and enthusiasm for his feats.
3. His own poor charisma-- He is not attractive. He does not have a charming personality.
These facts are undeniable, but leave the poor guy alone.
These factors are out of his control.
And the fact that he is certainly AWARE of how much everyone distrusts him leads to awkward and insecure media encounters, especially with knowledgeable outlets like LRC--makes him even more of a poor interview.
I make no judgement on whether or not he has crossed the line from gray-area boundary-pushing with Salazar to outright cheating--I don't know the truth and I don't care to worry about it.
In the end, it is how we are judged by our peers that matters in terms of legacy. As far as I can tell, Rupp gets an extremely frosty reception from his fellow American competitors.
Thanks for this civilized post. The 3 reasons you posted capture the majority opinion of the haters.
Regarding #1, it is 100% false. Privileged status? give me a break. Are you saying that someone has to be coached by a loser no-name dad high school coach in order to be an "insider"? That's perpetuating the Brojo-like mentality of a "blue-collar" runner vs "white-collar" runner. That you have to run 8x1 mile in the snow and run badger miles and uphill both ways in order to be considered a "tough" runner. How is Salazar not an insider to the running world? He himself was a competitive, professional runner. This is not like Trump, who had no experience in politics, who then won the presidency out of nowhere. That is what you call an outsider. Or consider a job interview. Companies look for people who have relevant experience. They don't care about 20 years of experience in another industry. How many years of experience do you have in this one? Call Salazar any name you want, but you can't deny that he has relevant experience in distance running.
Not relatable because he didn't run XC in high school? He ran XC all throughout high school. And then went on to compete at Oregon.
By the way, out of all of the 100+ guys that went through the Central Catholic High School XC program, how come none of them except Rupp became a distance running legend? I mean, according to you, they were all privileged to have Salazar as a coach, right?
The only reason Rupp is foreign to other fellow athletes is because they act socially awkward around him. Plain and simple.
Regarding #2, unfortunately, none of those bullet points have been shown to unfairly boost performance.
Regarding #3, that is a subjective view from a fan's perspective. Because distance running is not really a spectator sport, the spectator doesn't have as much say. So the people that complain are wasting their breath. We all know that most of our own running accomplishments go largely unnoticed and unappreciated. If you run a PR at a local 10k and then come into the office, some fat guy in your office actually gets more attention than you saying how he "ran" the race. It's a tragedy that people don't care about our 30:xx minute 10ks vs the fat guy's 50 min 10k. But if the same goes for us, then the same goes for Galen. It's simply not a spectator sport and therefore the people who complain are too shortsighted to see that it's unreasonable to expect a 5 star service waiter at a highway diner.
+1
Quality rebuttal stating my thoughts exactly. On a non-running related note, I find it silly to claim people have "no personality". More often than not, it means that the person is an introvert and is not trying to have high charisma.
Excited to see him running this fall. Now the question is, does he need to get into shape to run a fall marathon for the Olympic standard? Since Atlanta likely won't be sub 2:11:30.
Bullet_Proof wrote:
Here's why wrote:
We attack him for three reasons.
He's a cheater
He's arrogant
He looks effeminate
(Note: Jealousy is not one of them)
1.) re: cheater, you're wrong.
2.) re: arrogant, do you like Mohammed Ali? That dude was arrogant, but inspiring as hell. Even if Rupp is arrogant (not sure where you get that from), at least it provides some guts rather than "playing it safe" and saying stupid crap like "admiration and respect for the other runners...they ran great," blah blah blah. Screw that. "I kicked his A S S."
3.) His times certainly don't look effeminate.
Note: you wish you could run as fast as he can. Oh wait. You can't.
+1
I would take an introverted, distant, arguably aloof world beater over the social media “darlings” of Bowerman, or the Chads over at Tinman, for example.
Anyone who thinks otherwise had a trash upbringing rife with celebrity idolatry and, more than likely, lack of appreciable athletic success.
Times > Medals > Titles ... > ... Admiration
Bullet_Proof wrote:
trooth balm wrote:
Listen up folks, I'm gonna educate you on Rupp being disliked, and do so in a civilized manner:
First, he is without a doubt the finest distance runner the US has ever produced. 3:50 indoor mile (are you kidding me?) to sub 13 5k, to insane 26:4xx 10k (this will never be approached by a native born American (i.e. kenyan imports don't count), to consistently fast and tough marathoner with 2:06 PR.
2 Olympic medals.
NO American has ever been as competitive from mile to marathon, especially in the African era, as Rupp.
CASE CLOSED: objectively, our finest product EVER. The angry brit poster above is correct.
It is HOW he has achieved that greatness that bothers people. Do the ends justify the means?
Problems for Rupp:
1. Privileged status--He has been professionally coached by maniacal Salazar since HS--that was always going to make him an "outsider" to the running community, even while he has always been the ultimate "insider" in terms of access to Nike's resources.
He is not RELATABLE to the average US track nerd--i.e. those who were born in the USA, ran XC and track at a US HS, some of whom then went on to run in college, very few of whom went on to run professionally. Rupp's experience is totally foreign to basically all his fellow athletes, even his fellow pros.
2. Salazar--love him or hate him, there is tons of smoke coming from this guy, and it shadows all of Rupp's success.
Sending Rupp medications in hollowed out books.
Bullying his way to improper IV usage at meets.
L-carnitine infusion shenanigans.
Personally massaging Rupp privately, while all other athletes are massaged by a pro masseuse.
Having a huge basement collection of pharmaceuticals at his house.
Dispensing rx pharmaceuticals to athletes.
Testing testosterone detect-ability on his own son.
A huge trail of angry and accusatory ex-associates, a la Lance Armstrong.
The list goes on, but he point is: even if there is never a "smoking gun" event like Aden getting busted with loads of EPO, or an actual drug test positive, the whole sordid list just doesn't create joy and enthusiasm for his feats.
3. His own poor charisma-- He is not attractive. He does not have a charming personality.
These facts are undeniable, but leave the poor guy alone.
These factors are out of his control.
And the fact that he is certainly AWARE of how much everyone distrusts him leads to awkward and insecure media encounters, especially with knowledgeable outlets like LRC--makes him even more of a poor interview.
I make no judgement on whether or not he has crossed the line from gray-area boundary-pushing with Salazar to outright cheating--I don't know the truth and I don't care to worry about it.
In the end, it is how we are judged by our peers that matters in terms of legacy. As far as I can tell, Rupp gets an extremely frosty reception from his fellow American competitors.
Thanks for this civilized post. The 3 reasons you posted capture the majority opinion of the haters.
Regarding #1, it is 100% false. Privileged status? give me a break. Are you saying that someone has to be coached by a loser no-name dad high school coach in order to be an "insider"? That's perpetuating the Brojo-like mentality of a "blue-collar" runner vs "white-collar" runner. That you have to run 8x1 mile in the snow and run badger miles and uphill both ways in order to be considered a "tough" runner. How is Salazar not an insider to the running world? He himself was a competitive, professional runner. This is not like Trump, who had no experience in politics, who then won the presidency out of nowhere. That is what you call an outsider. Or consider a job interview. Companies look for people who have relevant experience. They don't care about 20 years of experience in another industry. How many years of experience do you have in this one? Call Salazar any name you want, but you can't deny that he has relevant experience in distance running.
Not relatable because he didn't run XC in high school? He ran XC all throughout high school. And then went on to compete at Oregon.
By the way, out of all of the 100+ guys that went through the Central Catholic High School XC program, how come none of them except Rupp became a distance running legend? I mean, according to you, they were all privileged to have Salazar as a coach, right?
The only reason Rupp is foreign to other fellow athletes is because they act socially awkward around him. Plain and simple.
Regarding #2, unfortunately, none of those bullet points have been shown to unfairly boost performance.
Regarding #3, that is a subjective view from a fan's perspective. Because distance running is not really a spectator sport, the spectator doesn't have as much say. So the people that complain are wasting their breath. We all know that most of our own running accomplishments go largely unnoticed and unappreciated. If you run a PR at a local 10k and then come into the office, some fat guy in your office actually gets more attention than you saying how he "ran" the race. It's a tragedy that people don't care about our 30:xx minute 10ks vs the fat guy's 50 min 10k. But if the same goes for us, then the same goes for Galen. It's simply not a spectator sport and therefore the people who complain are too shortsighted to see that it's unreasonable to expect a 5 star service waiter at a highway diner.
+1
Bullet_Proof wrote:
haterhere wrote:
Because there are many other Americans with less of a cloud of suspicion around them?
What does a cloud of suspicion look like? Does it resemble a cumulonimbus form or more of a nimbostratus?
It looks like what this poster said,
"He's a long time science project of a shady coach/human that has coached athletes that have cheated before, been found with needles at training camp, exceeded IV limits, and tested how much testosterone triggers a positive test on his son (conveniently, his prized pupil was noted for needing testosterone medication)."
dontundertsand wrote:
... the fanboys claiming he is great kind of detract from the discussion, because pretending he's won multiple Olympic medals, or a slew of majors, is rather ludicrous, or pretending that he has set major world records, or anything remotely like that, is just odd.
I don't have to pretend he won multiple Olympic medals because he did... Silver at 10k in 2012 and Bronze in 'thon in 2016.
He hasn't won a 'slew' of majors, but he's got a win at Chicago, a win at the US trials and 2nd at Boston. Won the Prague Marathon too.
He's got quite a 'slew' of american records. Four of them to be exact. Marathon record likely coming too..
That's great any way you look at it. Way better than any American we have right now or the last 5 years. Easily top 5 american long distance runner ever.
You're nuts
remoter wrote:
Bullet_Proof wrote:
yawn.
Resounding rebuttal from the fanboy.
Cool story bro. Are you going to keep using the same old recycled arguments?
remoter wrote:
Bullet_Proof wrote:
yawn.
Resounding rebuttal from the fanboy.
Cool story bro. Going to keep using the same old arguments, huh?
Bullet_Proof wrote:
remoter wrote:
Resounding rebuttal from the fanboy.
Cool story bro. Are you going to keep using the same old recycled arguments?
They are valid reasons for why people don’t like Rupp. If you want to blindly idolize him, that’s your prerogative. Keep burying your head in the sand, but don’t pretend you can explain those away.
Fast forward a couple years and Galen Rupp's running career is done and he is in a bar trying to tell his running stories to anyone who will listen.
It's great that we have Galen! He is the only U.S. male marathoner that can run with the best internationally. It's too late for all the other top U.S. male marathoners to catch up to the rest of the world but Galen can be role model for the next generation of runners to show what is possible.
casual obsever wrote:
ThatAverageRunner wrote:
-nothing to do with Rupp.
-Although it does make Salazar look bad that he's coached champions and said that, he's still mostly correct. Most champions are probably on something.
-?
-You bringing up the 'likely doping' think shows you don't understand how that program works. So you lose some points there.
-Could you link this? I haven't seen that. Also, if that did happen, can we be sure that testosterone levels don't naturally fluctuate a little bit during heavy training including lifting and 130mpw? I don't know and I'm guessing you don't know either.
- shows that his coach was the coach of a testo drug cheat - I would stay away, far away
- agreed
- according to USADA, the group including Rupp highly likely exceed the legal injection limit, which can be lead to a ban of 2 years (if unintentional) or 4 years
- "Likely doping: Considering the information within the Athlete’s Passport, it is likely that the Passport is the result the Use of a Prohibited Substance or Prohibited Method and it is highly unlikely that it may be the result of a normal physiological or pathological condition." - "highly unlikely" that he was clean - I call that a smoking gun
- the testo spike was large enough to trigger the ABP alarm for the 2nd time at least, see the USADA leaked report/draft - - I call that a smoking gun
Remember we are talking about smoking guns, not final proof.
Just curious what your thoughts regarding mo farah are. He's had all of that PLUS close association with Jama Aden, then lied about it. He's also had missed drug tests for less than appropriate excuses.
Mo Farah is much different than Rupp. I dont think he dopes. He is one of my heroes.