Are the sugars in fruits good or bad for you?

And.....this is the problem with nutrition (not directed at you personally, just thread in general). There are a metric ton of studies showing a large variety of things, and you can pull significant studies to support either side of the argument.

We know that the Paleo diet appeal to evolution is rather bogus. What our "ancestors" ate is both different from the foods we have today (i.e. selective breeding/GMOs) and that it was incredibly varied. Some populations ate lots of fruit, many ate mostly veggies and nuts, some ate almost exclusively meat.

Grains, indeed, where fairly scarce. We know that in general, for most people, gluten is especially hard on the digestive tract for many.

We also know that almost all processed foods contain added sugars, added chemicals, etc. Added sugars have not been found to have any benefits (except maybe cheap energy in athletic context or similar) and have many studies suggesting detrimental affects. We can also deduce that most likely the additive, pesticides (designed to kill sh1t), herbicides (designed to kill sh1t), and random chemicals and flavoring are unlikely to be helpful. Which gives us the first area that most people will agree on: cut the processed foods out. Cut added sugars out.

We also know that meats that are raised standard industrial standard way and grain fed typically have a 1:10 to 1:20 ratio of Omega 3:Omega-6, and that grass fed meats typically have a ration of around 1:2 - 1:4. Fatty fish, such as salmon, sardines, tuna, etc. can often have profiles favorable in favor of Omega 3 by 20:1 ratios. Moreover, we know that most ancestral populations did have Omega3:Omega6 ratio of approximately 1:1 with a variation of maybe 4:1 - 1:4:

We also know that heart disease was a rather rare event before about 100 years ago. The major changes are cigarette smoking (not believed to be major factor, especially now that rates have come down), in conjunction with studies like this in the heavily smoking population (

) and diet.

The main factors (that we readily think of changing here are: increase in refined sugars, increase in hydrogenated/vegatable oils, decrease in ration of Omega 3 : Omega 6 FA. Possibly pesticides/herbicides/other agriculture related factors.

----------------------------------------

The above is the stuff we like to think we "know". It's generally not challenged by people and born out by data. Beyond that, there are many opinions. You can find lots of studies supporting the idea of being vegetarian, especially with fish consumption, and some supporting vegan. There is also lots of evidence for a more "Paleo" style of eating (e.g. all meats, no grains, lots of vegatables, modest fruit + nut consumption, no processed food, no vegetable oils with coconut or EV Olive Oil being preferred).

Examples (Paleo):

Believed to be helpful with Diabetes, Neurological Conditions, Satiety/Weight Loss, possibly heart disease, possibly gut issues, possibly autoimmune conditions.

- Small study, but significant improvements in fatigue for MS patients. Clinical trial so how more targeted to causation.

- Less hunger, improvement in GIP, PYY hormone profiles

- Inflammation decrease (C-Reactive protein) over 2 years

- Improved blood profile versus those put on the recommended diet by Dutch Health Council

- Outperforming a specific diet designed for diabetes with regards to plasma leptin

- Tiny study, but significant consistent improvements over 10 day period. BP, Insulin sensitivty, lipids, and brachial artery response to ischemia improved

- Australian Guide to Healthy Eating diet (whole grains, fruit, vegetables, low-fat dairy, and reduced quantities of high-sugar products and refined grains) vs Paleo diet (lean meats, fish, eggs, nuts, fruit, vegetables, olive oil, coconut oil, and almond milk in place of cow milk; no grains, legumes, or dairy). The Paleo group had lost significantly more weight and saw a greater decrease in waist circumference.

- Satiety comparision between Paleo and Mediterranean diet. Paleo diet also had improved leptin levels.

- Paleo outperforming a specific diabetes diet (whole grains, vegetables, fruits, berries, and lower total fat)

- MS improvements

- Longer term (2 year) Paleo study. Increased weight loss, better lipid profiles, no observed negatives.

- Interesting one where they took aborigines from standard Australian diet to a native diet. Marked improvements in health and profiles.

- More diabetes improvements

- Better lipid profile in Paleo compared to American Heart Association diet

Meta Analysis of a decent number of Paleo studies:

-----------------

There is a compelling case for Paleo style eating. It seems almost certain that eating Paleo would blow SAD out of the water. Is it healthier than other options? Well, I just linked a bunch of studies suggesting that yea, it might be. However, as I alluded to earlier...you can do the same for a vegetarian style of eating and a few other diets.

------------------

What's the common denominator for almost all studies? Limited added sugars, "natural" single ingredient type foods heavily consumed, especially veggies, improved Omega 3 : Omega 6 profile, removal of processed foods of all types to avoid chemicals, additives, etc. That's about as close as we can come to saying what's "right" or "correct.

Paleo v Veggie v Mediterranean v DASH...well, juries out on that one boys. If someone tells you they have an answer, they are almost certainly kidding both themselves and you.

Oh, and vegetable oils of most types are probably really bad for you. There Omega 3 : 6 ratio is terrible, and for most these are the primary fats. Consumption of vegatable/seed oils now sits at an average of 70lbs/person. With that terrible ratio, no wonder we have gone from 1:1 to 1:20.

EVOO, is often hyped. Why, especially when considering it's 1:10 profile? Well, it's loaded with nutrients and antioxidants compared to processed oils. More importantly, there are only about 10 grams of PUFA in EVOO, whereas in a vegatable oil you're getting maybe 50 grams, or more, out of 100. Moreover EVOO is largely a monounsaturated FA. The number of PUFA is pretty low.

Problem with PUFA? They oxidize easily, go rancid easily, and then act as free radicals in the body. I probably don't need to mention why that's bad. So things like EVOO and Coconut oil are recommended because the PUFA content is low, with EVOO having high MUFA and coconut oil having high SFA content.

So yea, probably a smart decision to put to rest the seed or vegetable oils. No found benefits, plenty of potential downsides. Easy change to make too.

S. Canaday wrote:

I believe there is probably for sure a high correlation between being vegan... and being more liberal... and being stuck up....and being gay.

Fixed it, sorry libs. Having a college degree doesn't make you smart.

shhhhhhhhhhh wrote:

old and gassy wrote:

+1. YMMV is an old delusional fart who finally found the vocation and love of his life in trolling at LRC.

Saw A Quiet Place on a plane on Sunday. YMMV is the monster lurking out there listening for any sound of nutrition and then swooping in and killing the thread.

He's been pissed off recently after losing his fake teeth. Can't chew his bacon.

bacoooon!!!!! wrote:

shhhhhhhhhhh wrote:

Saw A Quiet Place on a plane on Sunday. YMMV is the monster lurking out there listening for any sound of nutrition and then swooping in and killing the thread.

He's been pissed off recently after losing his fake teeth. Can't chew his bacon.

It's vegans who have worse bone problems.

YMMV wrote:

old and gassy wrote:

0/10

I'm so fed up with your LCHF crap it's making me puke. ? You post on these diet/nutrition threads like you're some kind of "know-it-all" Sprintgeezer or YMMV, or whoever you post as. You don't know everything about nutrition pal - you just think you do while trying to ram your LCHF diet down everyone's throat! Take a chill pill and put this in your pipe and smoke it:

+1. YMMV is an old delusional fart who finally found the vocation and love of his life in trolling at LRC.

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1200/1*gpRMT6m2l4xw4F3tE2aVZw.jpeghttps://st.depositphotos.com/1394326/1378/i/950/depositphotos_13784653-stock-photo-false-teeth-in-glass.jpg

Keep flinging the poo my diahrreic little monkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTtXr-VFKS4

You seem to have some fixiation about animals and excrements.

old and gassy wrote:

YMMV wrote:

Keep flinging the poo my diahrreic little monkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTtXr-VFKS4

You seem to have some fixiation about animals and excrements.

Western origins of vegetarianism/veganism goes back to the seventh day Adventist church. Who thought that excluding animal products from the diet would stop people from the worse possible sin one could commit. Which they thought masterbation was the worse sin. Dr. John Kellogg was a seventh day Adventist too. He founded his cereal company to feed people foods he thought would stop people from sinning. Many of the biggest cereal companies today are run by the seventh day Adventist church, which still teach vegatarianism. The seventh day Adventist church also started nutrition "science". After the Catholic church, the seventh day Adventist church is the biggest church in the world. This isn't about evidence or what the best diet for humans is. It is a religion.

A lot of the studies supporting vegetarian/vegan diets are either funded by the seventh day Adventist church, and/or done by scientist who are seventh day Adventist.

LM wrote:

What our "ancestors" ate is both different from the foods we have today (i.e. selective breeding/GMOs) and that it was incredibly varied. Some populations ate lots of fruit.

The hell they did. At high latitudes they didn't have any most of the year, and at low latitudes the fruit they had wasn't fit to eat a lot of, due to that lack of selective breeding.

It's a hoot to see Sage comparing apes and humans. Dude, look at some anatomy charts and note the difference in the hindgut. You don't have what it takes to digest what an ape eats. That's why they get big and strong eating crunchy fiber-filled plants all day and you don't.

Seventh day Adventist church wrote:

A lot of the studies supporting vegetarian/vegan diets are either funded by the seventh day Adventist church, and/or done by scientist who are seventh day Adventist.

Lot of comedians on this forum.

Finally not a person saying "Fruit bad! meat good! your brain is cloudy and you are gay!!!"

While I didnt read the studies, thank you for actually providing studies and a logical argument. That being said, I wont go to paleo but I can actually have more respect for it knowing there are real studies backing it up.

We also probably aren't supposed to be living too far from the equator either...but we found out how to make fire, insulated shelters, warm clothes, hunt/fish and steal milk from other mammals...doesnt mean it was an ideal long term health choice though. Heart disease and cancer take a while to develop...but what we see in modern populations esp in the US is that people are pretty unhealthy with the standard American diet (often including a lot of meat and dairy and highly processed stuff). Most of these people probably don't eat enough whole fruits! And just for the record I dont think most Americans should be having a bunch of concentrated fruit juice and jelly... The whole idea with a plant based (often vegan) diet is that it is “whole foods.” That means eating whole fruits and less highly processed stuff (even cutting out things like white flour). But any diet that says “fruit is bad” is a pretty bad diet in my book. Its not like people usually eat more than a single apple and a banana and an orange in a day.

Bad Wigins wrote:

LM wrote:

What our "ancestors" ate is both different from the foods we have today (i.e. selective breeding/GMOs) and that it was incredibly varied. Some populations ate lots of fruit.

The hell they did. At high latitudes they didn't have any most of the year, and at low latitudes the fruit they had wasn't fit to eat a lot of, due to that lack of selective breeding.

It's a hoot to see Sage comparing apes and humans. Dude, look at some anatomy charts and note the difference in the hindgut. You don't have what it takes to digest what an ape eats. That's why they get big and strong eating crunchy fiber-filled plants all day and you don't.

Yeah, you can have another apple :D But watch out for those bananas. That's a lot of carbs.

Apples have 25g carbs on average v. 27g for banana; about the same. Fructose content varies with ripeness of banana and type of apple.

Berries have the lowest carb and sugar content.

not a doctor wrote:

Beware statistical extrapolation! wrote:

Actually this is currently a huge area of debate. Your response is wrong in that at a very basic level yes it would be possible to take in the exact same calories from both these foods. The argument would be around the associated fats / potential carcinogenic properties of that greasy fried food.

You say that I am wrong and then you act like people have the ability to separate the grease and fats from the rest of the calories before they eat a burger. I have never seen or heard of someone doing that.

I didn't "act" or make any such suggestion whatsoever.

To make my point again analogously what I said was just because in general, statistically speaking, someone having dreadlocks will be a marijuana smoker that doesn't mean if I styled myself some dreadlocks tomorrow that I would EVER necessarily become a marijuana smoker.

YMMV wrote:

Apples have 25g carbs on average v. 27g for banana; about the same. Fructose content varies with ripeness of banana and type of apple.

Berries have the lowest carb and sugar content.

Wow! Just wow!

I agree with this 100 percent. I was brought up on the typical American diet, and would have been dead a long time ago had I not changed completely in the mid 1970's, nearly 50 years ago. Since then my diet has been 85 to 90 percent or higher calories from fruit, veggies, complex carbohydrates, and no extraneous protein or fat. My favorite fruit is bananas.

My Grandpa went to Burger King 5 times a week, had a Whopper Jr. and a small fry with a coke and lived to be 92 years old. How did that work?

btw he was also extremely Conservative. And thought "runners were the least happy people on the planet. Have you ever seen a runner smiling?"