El Keniano wrote:
the italian job wrote:
No such thing. All you have is a list of athletes that haven’t been caught yet.
Which is literally the case for Western athletes. None have been caught because no one is trying to catch them.
Anyone with an Italian coach in Kenya should be banned. Time to clean house.
El Keniano wrote:
Let's Tell It Like It Is wrote:
Are you living in a cave these days or what? They've been bagging Kenyan stars like crazy lately! How about the latest one that was announced a couple of months ago: Sarah Chepchirchir - another marathoner caught for doping (ABP violation). She's big time & prime time with some serious speed: 26th fastest marathon ever and 10th fastest Kenyan woman! And since marathoning is one of kenyan's strong suits for females that's saying something. She also won the 2017 Tokyo marathon.
And don't get too complacent there Mr. El K: "Currently, Kenya, Ethiopia, Belarus and Ukraine constitute the current watchlist of Category 'A', which includes the members most at risk of doping.”
Sarah Chepchirchir, Jemima Sumgong’s sister-in-law, was and still is, a relative no-name in Kenya despite winning that major. She never represented the country at championship level and her case had been known and pending for about year until the announcement. Now Kiprop, Sumgong and Jeptoo ... those were big. My prediction of a decline in doping busts still stands. They peaked a couple of years ago. The AIU, which spends a quarter of its resources on just Kenya alone, has been sounding off positively on Kenya’s progress in this area and A-B level Kenyans are now tested more than their Western counterparts who, apparently, never dope because zero have been caught LOL.
Sumgong's sister-in-law? Imagine that. ?
Chepchirchir may be a "realitive no-name" in Kenya land but she's the 26th fastest all-time at that distance! Only one American has run faster than her; Kastor. And she's faster than prime time Sumgong.....so don't try to undermind her ability with this no-name BS. The women's marathon is probably the most competitive event in athletics these days - the prize dough is decent. One major win and a Kenyan woman becomes pretty well off and hero in her village.
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/wmaraok.htmHer case is an ABP violation - so either hematological anomalies or steroid module anomalies, or both...we'll have to wait and see.
And the AIU should spend a "quarter of their resources on Kenya." They've been doped to the gills for years! I've got them not too far behind Russia - but yet the Slavics get banned and Kenya skates! Coe could have put the kabosh on Kenya and send a message! All because of the television revenue, IMO - ban the Kenyans and not many are going to want to watch the Olympics, WCs, DLs, etc. without Kenya nation. Follow the $$$$....same as it ever was.
Reali wrote:
Ctrl+Alt+Del wrote:
Can you please provide evidence to any of your accusations/insinuations?
Thank you.
The fact that he beat the WR by over minute isn't suspicious to you? ?
Well say no more
Hard to believe wrote:
Had to see it to believe it! Beats El G at the line...WOW! Plus he destroyed another full-throttle Morrocan in Goumri! That was one crazy WC! El G dethroned by 18 yr old Kipchoge! ?
https://youtu.be/xjlqokZ_Xgk
Gourmi obviously got a better pharmacist during the intervening years.
Coevett wrote:
The fact is that Kipchoge peaked at the 5000m when aged 18/19. After another 3 or 4 years, he markedly declined.
Nothing extraordinary in that, I guess. He wouldn't be the first junior star to peak early and slowly burn out.
Except he certainly wasn't burnt out, was he?
His career would make a little more sense if he (as many suspect) was an age cheat junior. But then if he was willing to cheat about his age, why wouldn't he cheat with peds too?
My thoughts is that although everyone here is focused on epo, the real thing being missed is these secretive camps. They get these promising young 16/18 year-olds and spend 2-3 years moulding them into machines. But in order to create these super runners, they have to do supranatural training levels and traditionally the only way this is possible is the leg strength steriod Nandrolone but this stays in the system for months, even years. Hence the unknowns hiding out at secretive training camps that suddenly burst onto the scene beating those established greats after a handful of races. They're allowed to race once their system is clear, but the strength residue remains for years only needing slight top-ups like in the Asterix comics. However, I will confess nowadays hgh, androgel, lozenges and patches are probably used in a short cut by managers anxious to bring in revenue. Athletes going backwards after their first season or two on the scene is an extremely suspicious sign. Running 1 or 2 marathons per year and/or a 10km is another genius move the dodgy managers, it completely nullifies testing.
ukathleticscoach wrote:
What is the 2nd best time wearing 4% behind Kipchoge?
Wether or not he's doping he's running faster off his superior track times to his competitor's
The 2nd best time was the prototypes Bekele was wearing for Berlin in 2016.
dunes runner wrote:
tarckstar wrote:
The 4% shoes are exactly like the wetsuits used briefly by fast swimmers, then outlawed.
Because 4% shoes help you to slip through air with no resistance, exactly like the wetsuits that are used in cold water.
Back about a month ago I watched the Dubai or Abu Dhabi half and Stephen Kiprop in adidas sat right in behind the Ethiopian wearing Vaporflys and sprinted past at the end. Drafting is superior to the 4% Vaporflys but I'm not sure it's worth 4% at half marathon pace, so the shoes are even less.
El Keniano wrote:
Coevett wrote:
It gets shorter by the week.
You have to admit that during the last year (when testing standards in Kenya were raised just a notch), more stars were getting popped than were being born.
No. They didn’t even crack 1% of Kenyan stars. Unlike if Farah or Muir got popped, that would be 50% of British elites right there.
But no British stars have popped, and you're totally lying yet again. You have 300 Kiprop, Bett, and Ruth Jebets??? You also had 3 other runners who have competed for Kenya at major international games suspended.
Subway Surfers wrote:
My thoughts is that although everyone here is focused on epo, the real thing being missed is these secretive camps. They get these promising young 16/18 year-olds and spend 2-3 years moulding them into machines. But in order to create these super runners, they have to do supranatural training levels and traditionally the only way this is possible is the leg strength steriod Nandrolone but this stays in the system for months, even years. Hence the unknowns hiding out at secretive training camps that suddenly burst onto the scene beating those established greats after a handful of races. They're allowed to race once their system is clear, but the strength residue remains for years only needing slight top-ups like in the Asterix comics. However, I will confess nowadays hgh, androgel, lozenges and patches are probably used in a short cut by managers anxious to bring in revenue. Athletes going backwards after their first season or two on the scene is an extremely suspicious sign. Running 1 or 2 marathons per year and/or a 10km is another genius move the dodgy managers, it completely nullifies testing.
Yes, it's also probably the reason why so many Kenyan 'junior' stars look so freakish. They're likely being pumped full of HGH from puberty, leading to cranial and other deformities.
casual obsever wrote:
Yeah... The experts' opinions that blood doping alone can help up to 3%, or 30 s over 5000 and 1 minute over 10000 m were also discussed here repeatedly (e.g., Ashenden/Parisotto/Schumacher, who all have actually seen the correlation between blood values and performance).
Kipchoge is as clean as Bolt or Bekele or Radcliffe or M. Johnson or FloJo.
Here cited verbatim from Malm et al., in a peer-reviewed review from 2016:
From the summarized literature, it can be estimated that elite athletes may improve performance by up to 3% with blood doping, regardless of method [29–31]. This enhancement is equivalent to, for example, seven minutes faster winning time in the 90 km cross country ski race Vasaloppet, 20–30 seconds faster time in any given 5000 m run at world class level, and four minutes faster finishing time in a marathon race.
As if Kipchoge could have run a 1:57...
Some here are either (too obviously) trolling or PR shills.
Sorry Casual the 30s & 1 min can't be true because:
-JO states epo doesn't give you more energy,
-Renato states that epo doesn't work on Kenyans,
-Renato states that epo doesn't work on anyone living at high altitude,
-Renato states that epo doesn't work for anyone training properly,
-Renato states that epo doesn't work for the marathon,
-Gary Radcliffe states that nobody in athletics is doping, any gains from epo are placebo,
-Gary Radcliffe states that Paula is the cleanest runner of all time despite having the most energy wasting form of any elite I have ever seen.
BTW the Mutant Ninja Turtles lived in the sewer.?
Let's Tell It Like It Is wrote:
No. They didn’t even crack 1% of Kenyan stars. Unlike if Farah or Muir got popped, that would be 50% of British elites right there.
Are you living in a cave these days or what? They've been bagging Kenyan stars like crazy lately! How about the latest one that was announced a couple of months ago: Sarah Chepchirchir - another marathoner caught for doping (ABP violation). She's big time & prime time with some serious speed: 26th fastest marathon ever and 10th fastest Kenyan woman! And since marathoning is one of kenyan's strong suits for females that's saying something. She also won the 2017 Tokyo marathon.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-02/11/c_137813551.htmhttps://youtu.be/XETgkPjeR8YAnd don't get too complacent there Mr. El K: "Currently, Kenya, Ethiopia, Belarus and Ukraine constitute the current watchlist of Category 'A', which includes the members most at risk of doping."
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-09/27/c_137497306.htm[/quote]
When the heck did this happen? Another sub 2:20 woman gets popped, wow. El K will be crying into his cornflakes this morning. He'll need a Rachel Maddow marathon to cheer him up.
Subway Surfers wrote:
When the heck did this happen? Another sub 2:20 woman gets popped, wow. El K will be crying into his cornflakes this morning. He'll need a Rachel Maddow marathon to cheer him up.
Well back then rekrunnr explained why that was fake news, see on the first page her:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9236232casual obsever wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
When the heck did this happen? Another sub 2:20 woman gets popped, wow. El K will be crying into his cornflakes this morning. He'll need a Rachel Maddow marathon to cheer him up.
Well back then rekrunnr explained why that was fake news, see on the first page her:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9236232
Funny post by rekrunnr. Your post on page #4 is interesting:
"ABP case" -> almost guaranteed blood doping, as endurance runners won't use such an extreme amount of roids to get banned without testing positive.
Would love to see her values, probably Hct > 50% / Hb > 16 g/dl."
That's what I was wondering if it's a hematological case or from the steroid module (which went into effect in 2014?). Good point on the androgens - distance runners wouldn't be using a heavy, or even moderate dose, which would be needed to flag the module. They would be interested in a lower-dose recovery usage which would probably fly under the radar but sudjected to a hit on an OOC test if they're glowing in their cycle, and depending on what method of use (oral, injectable, topical, etc.).
Yes - seeing the Hct/Hgb values & Off-score(s) would be interesting - it's got to be way above threshold and a high Off-score for an actual charge to be issued as opposed to a "likely doping" status where nothing is ever done (e.g. Fancy Bears WADA hack).
If this holds up and there is a sanction, I think this will actually be the first Kenyan ABP sanction? I don't find a single Kenyan on the biological passport sanction list for athletics, though the list isn't current as there are about 10 more Russian cases missing:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_passportDoped to the Max wrote:
[quote]casual obsever wrote:
That's what I was wondering if it's a hematological case or from the steroid module (which went into effect in 2014?). Good point on the androgens - distance runners wouldn't be using a heavy, or even moderate dose, which would be needed to flag the module. They would be interested in a lower-dose recovery usage which would probably fly under the radar but sudjected to a hit on an OOC test if they're glowing in their cycle, and depending on what method of use (oral, injectable, topical, etc.).
Yes - seeing the Hct/Hgb values & Off-score(s) would be interesting - it's got to be way above threshold and a high Off-score for an actual charge to be issued as opposed to a "likely doping" status where nothing is ever done (e.g. Fancy Bears WADA hack).
If this holds up and there is a sanction, I think this will actually be the first Kenyan ABP sanction? I don't find a single Kenyan on the biological passport sanction list for athletics, though the list isn't current as there are about 10 more Russian cases missing:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_passport
Yes it is either a transfusion or ESA. Kiprop is listed solely under epo. It would be interesting to know if transfusions are far more common from local hospitals than we realize. Xenon gas?
What do people not understand wrote:
4%s. Are. Legal.
Not to mention, everyone else is wearing them too.. and they're all two minutes behind. Two contradicting points..
1. There are a lot of runners on the NN team now. You'd think someone else would be getting busted if they were doping (or if some of them were). Unless Kipchoge is the only person on the team doing it.. which I doubt. However,
2. I couldn't even make sense of what I was watching in Sept--Kipchoge crosses the line faster than anyone has run, by far, and just sprints to his coach. Then he goes and jogs around the finisher's chute.
Minutes later, second place comes in and the guy looks like he's about to die. Wilson Kipsang comes in five minutes behind, clearly tired. And Kispsang is a guy who built up, peaked, and now is arguably slowing down... which is what is normal.
To say "Kipchoge works harder than anyone else" is non sense. We have no idea, and that's selling short all the other people in the world who are killing themselves daily too.
I don't believe for a second that Racliffe was clean. I guess when Kipchoge is done and retired, eventually i'll make up my mind about his performances.
Rita Jeptoo was DQed for Boston 2014 because of problems with her passport. I think she was the first Kenyan.
Well, apparently certain Austrians did their own blood transfusions on a Germam autobahn...
Have you seen the recent blood doping scandal in Erfurt? They simply stored the blood in a garage of sorts.
It's in their shins
casual obsever wrote:
Rita Jeptoo was DQed for Boston 2014 because of problems with her passport. I think she was the first Kenyan.
You're right...I forgot about that one. Though her EPO OOC positive was a couple of weeks before Chicago, they went back and looked at the ABP data from Boston where she set the course record. There was sufficient hematological anomalies of doping to strip her of the title and course record. Lol.
casual obsever wrote:
Well, apparently certain Austrians did their own blood transfusions on a Germam autobahn...
Have you seen the recent blood doping scandal in Erfurt? They simply stored the blood in a garage of sorts.
It's even worst than that. Athletes would transport their blood on international flights by infusing pre-flight and a withdrawal procedure upon arrival at the competition destination. Then they re-infused again before competition and another withdrawal right after competition so as to not trip their passport. Unbelievable! (looks like there was involvement at the Honolulu marathon).
This:
https://www.sportschau.de/doping/German-athlete-participant-with-Erfurt-doping-network-100.html"However, the image of the practices of the secret Erfurt network is becoming increasingly sharp. 21 athletes from eight European countries are currently being targeted by the investigators and suspected of having belonged to Schmidt's customers. Between 2011 and 2019, they are said to have used their own blood for doping in Europe, in the US state of Hawaii, at the Honolulu Marathon. And they also played on the big stage: for example at the Olympic Winter Games in February 2018 in Pyeongchang.
The athletes themselves - or to be more precise: their bodies - served as inconspicuous transport containers for the red blood cells that had previously been stored. Before departure to South Korea, up to a litre of blood concentrate was infused into their circulation.
The Berlin sports physician and internist Fernando Dimeo calls this procedure "perverse and criminal". Dimeo says: "You have no experience. You have to imagine - you don't inject your own blood into a healthy body and certainly not before the flight." This is because: "The blood becomes thicker. Accordingly, clots can form, thromboses - life-threatening." Especially since the athletes are on long-haul flights - "three, four hours until they reach the nearest airport. That's particularly risky."
After landing, the athletes had their blood drawn off again by employees of the Erfurt network in order to have it infused again shortly before the start of their competition."