Brexit: can someone explain the basics of why it's such a terrible thing for "Great" Britain to no longer be part of t

There is no problem. In fact the problem is giving in to the demands of others in order to be part of their way. Brexit is part of the social evolution to give everyone in the world the right to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't violate the rights of others.

356yu36 said: Brexit is part of the social evolution to give everyone in the world the right to do whatever they want, as long as it doesn't violate the rights of others.

eventually, folk will come to realise that this is impossible.

freedom of speech teaches us this.

cheers.

I traveled to a bunch of countries in Europe last summer. Only a few of them felt like first world countries—Great Britain, Switzerland, and Germany specifically. The other countries had roads and electricity, clean water and internet, but man, apart from that, they were kind-of sh!tholes. Cool architecture and history, of course, but man, most of them felt impoverished compared to the 3 I just mentioned.

If I were one of those 3 countries, I'd get the hell out of the EU as quick as possible, and I would consider it an intelligent thing, not a "terrible thing".

"freedom of speech teaches us this."

Freedom of speech teaches us that anyone can say what they want but they are responsible if that speech violates the rights of others . So yes it is very possible.

"If I were one of those 3 countries I'd get the hell out of the EU as quick as possible"

Everyone should be allowed to trade freely with open borders, not have to pay in to do so and not have restrictions based on politics.. Some regions will be prosperous; others will not. However as the world evolves over time the standard everywhere will go up and up. I say move where you want, create your own life and share good ideas with your neighbors all over the world. The internet has made all this possible.

You need to know a few facts to understand.

Firstly, the electorate were consistently lied to by the Leave campaign. Indeed, the Leave campaign manager has been found to be in contempt of parliment and has been fined by the electoral commission.

Secondly, the vast majority of leavers voted on one topic - immigration. Fuelled by the misconception that Europeans were taking the jobs of British people.

Thirdly, regarding the above point, the majority of leavers would not be able to tell you what being in the EU actually means - on any level!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uovt1sC3rtM

^ Above. Unfortunately the public vote was an unmitigated disaster. People were voting on issues they didn't understand. They weren't making an informed choice. Myself included. The issue is incredibly complex - it affects so many different things. Most people weren't aware of the majority of these things, some still aren't. Some weren't until after. The amount of reading required to make what can be even part way to an informed decision is huge. People were sent propaganda in the post - leaflets full of lies. The media was incredibly biased. The truth was obscured by a massive amount of companies, individuals and news outlets.

At the end of the day it's all a bit of an unknown. No one has a crystal ball. No one can, with 100% certainty, say whether the UK will be worse or better off if they left the EU. Everyone has the potential to be wrong (PS it's the UK leaving not Great Britain). Actually it could be devastating for NI in many respects.

I will say, what I find most frightening about it is I believe it has the ability to affect everything. To affect the prices we pay for food. To make a weekly grocery shop that was attainable before unattainable for some people. We are already in crisis. Really, we are. It's hidden and swept over but go and take a walk around a major city centre. Homelessness, I would estimate, and I don't give a shiit about the 'official' line on this or the statistics that are produced (with intent), I would estimate in some areas it is up five fold. And it will only get worse. I honestly believe the UK is heading for a complete economic collapse and it is possible that Brexit may only serve to hasten this. So that is why I believe it is bad. Even if long term it was to be good, what if it's the one storm a ship can't weather?

With non-EU immigration now double that of EU immigration, will the UK now be holding a referendum on leaving the world?

I agree. Such a mess. I live in a remain area, so it’s even more frustrating. I feel for Scotland too, which was overwhelming remain. I see another Scottish referendum on independence and it would pass next time. The backstop stuff could see a return of terrorism in NI. Focus should of always been to reform from within.

GB destroyed its unions, the industry and handed over its country to the banks. result is money for the rich and poverty for the rest.

From the other side wrote:

GB destroyed its unions, the industry and handed over its country to the banks. result is money for the rich and poverty for the rest.

Yawn.

My dad works in industry. It’s actually very really - it does exist. I can see out of my window too...

Why don’t you tell us more about your illuminati conspiracy theory?

Hmmmm hmmmm wrote:

You need to know a few facts to understand.

Firstly, the electorate were consistently lied to by the Leave campaign. Indeed, the Leave campaign manager has been found to be in contempt of parliment and has been fined by the electoral commission.

Secondly, the vast majority of leavers voted on one topic - immigration. Fuelled by the misconception that Europeans were taking the jobs of British people.

Thirdly, regarding the above point, the majority of leavers would not be able to tell you what being in the EU actually means - on any level!

It's actually this demeaning and patronizing attitude from the liberal elite that more than anything has led to the Brexit mess, just as it led to Trump being elected. But you guys are so up your own ar$e$ that you'll never understand.

I also can't recall the majority of the 'educated' being so fervently pro-EU before the vote, which is probably why so many of you didn't even bother to take part in the vote. I doubt if the majority of you could actually say why we should be trapped in an authoritarian, undemocratic protection racket of a superstate, aside from 'it shares your values'. Until that is, it starts to become dominated by fascist parties, which is the norm in European democracies and is recurring again in places like Austria and Italy, chiefly as a result of the stupid liberal policies of the EU.

I am British and am appalled about the result of the referendum because the people who voted to leave the EU did so in the basis of racism and lies. The UK has already lost global manufacturers and financial institutions as a direct result and this will only get worse. The comical situation now has these little Englanders saying things such as "food and medicine shortages will do them good".

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

The comical situation now has these little Englanders saying things such as "food and medicine shortages will do them good".

Isn't that the infamous stiff upper lip?

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

I am British and am appalled about the result of the referendum because the people who voted to leave the EU did so in the basis of racism and lies.

What's the problem with racism? It's a natural state for human beings.

I recently lived in London for 18 months. One of my favorite cities.

Remember hearing lots of complaints about council housing flats being predominately occupied by European immigrants.

This one girl I knew, spent most of her time at home in Barcelona, while her zone 1 council appartement (Tooley Street) was rented to tourists.

I am following the Brexit disaster since it got voted on.

There are a couple of things to mention to get some understanding of this self inflicted mess.

1. The EU is the the biggest peace project in the world. It got started in the 50ies. The EEC was the first step and now you have the EU with the Euro. One of there biggest successes is squaring the circle with the Ireland/Northern Ireland issue when they created the Good Friday Agreement in 1998. The UK also benefited prospered immensely while being in the EU.

2. The British press mostly Rupert Murdoch's papers are creating false statements about the EU for ages. Since they don't like that they can't have a monopoly on newspapers in Europe. This created resentments with people in the northern regions of England.

3. The referendum was the idea of David Cameron the prime minister at that time. It was probably the worst executed referendum ever held.

Switzerland does referendums all the time but they have a process for that where all of the pro and cons get published and people are voting on it in a educated way.

Brexit was none of it. It was a single issue vote about migration. The UK let a lot more people in their country ( a lot of Poland) but they didn't need to do that. The public had non of that, fueled by the Murdoch press over the years and austerity since Maggie Thatcher they voted out without thinking about the consequences.

4. Trade is quite different these days than it was in the good old Commonwealth times. The English navy showed up with some cannons and the people traded "freely" with them.

Today there is the WTO who sets the basic standards for trade but no country currently trades under these rules alone. They also require a solid border to check goods in and out. That is an important issue in the Ireland/Northern Ireland peace agreement where there can't be a border.

Today the EU is a big trading block of 28 member states who trade freely with themselves including free movement of people and work. They also have major agreements with 70 other countries.

All of that would go away with a crash out Brexit on (now) April 12th. That would mean that UK Semi drivers don't have a driver license for Europe anymore and their trucks can't operate in Europe as well. The UK police will loose the access to interpol. That are just two of 1000s of consequences.

The UK would have to deal under WTO terms, Ireland would start to reunify with Northern Ireland (as mentioned in the Good Friday Agreement) and Scotland would have a referendum on it's own to go back to the EU.

So in short: Probably not a good idea to begin with.

what's the problem? wrote:

I understand that I am supposed to think that Brexit is terrible, but I'm not 100% clear on why this is the case.

The EU is a free trade zone with a customs union and common regulations. This makes trade within the EU very easy for companies and, theoretically, should result in a greater choice of goods at better prices for the consumer. Pulling out will have a negative effect on these.

To give you a simplified example, suppose you live if Suffolk and run a company making shoes. You can sell your shoes in Suffolk, Norfolk, Essex, Kent etc without any hassle, all you need to do is find a shop to stock them. Now supposing your business is doing well and you decide to start exporting to the USA. You will suddenly be hit with a bunch of issues.

Firstly, US shoe sizes are different to the UK, your size 8 is a size 10 there, so you will have to change the marking of the size on the shoes and also on the packaging.

Secondly, you will need to get your shoes through US Customs. The US publishes a document to help you, "Importing into the United States - A Guide for Commercial Importers". It's 211 pages long and it is just the guide, the real regulations will be much longer. You will need to follow them all.

Thirdly, you will have to pay a tariff to the US government and these are not the same for all shoes, the rates for men's shoes differ to those for women's shoes. Also there is a different tariff if they are made of canvas or leather. You will need to find, and pay, the exact tariff for each type of shoe you are planning to export. As the US imports most of its shoes, tariffs amounted to nearly $3 billion a year. Interestingly, the tariff on canvas shoes is much higher than the tax on leather shoes due the intense lobbying by Converse in the last century.

After reading all that you will probably give up on the idea of entering the US market and just stick to England.

While Britain remains in the EU trade with Spain, Germany, France etc. is pretty much like trade with Norfolk, Essex, Kent etc. But if it exits it will move towards something like the requirements for trade with the USA. The softer the Brexit the more current trade controls are carried over, the harder the Brexit the more new trade regulations come in to replace them. So long as there is an organized exit with an agreement in place there will be a transition phase from the old rules to the new rules.

The real fear is if it is a hard Brexit there will be no transition period and the the second and third items above will kick in overnight. For an idea of what this mean for your shoe company, the guidance notes for leather shoe imports is 21 pages long and the notes for the Single Administrative Document, which I believe you will need to complete for each shipment, is 81 pages long.

Amongst myriad other factors, the freedom-of-movement loss is a kick in the teeth.

I am considering studying for a masters degree in continental Europe. Of course, I could still do that regardless of Brexit, but it does complicate applying to some countries. For example, Finland requires NO fees from British students if the UK is in the EU/EEA, but if it doesn't, they'd likely have to pay £10,000. Now that's not the end of the world - Germany, Switzerland both don't rely on EU membership for cheap tuition. However, options might become more limited, and it's a shame to suddenly find access restricted to such a wide-ranging, diverse, and cool place like the EU. Obviously, this is from the perspective of an early twenties person looking to explore, I imagine what I just said may be seen as a positive for those who voted Leave.

It's also the uncertainty, under the majority of European universities, there's a section saying that they are uncertain what the admissions policy for international students will be under Brexit. Again, nothing that would stop a really committed person going abroad to study or work, but it just seems a wholly avoidable inconvenience.

So that's the minor inconvenience Brexit is currently hitting me with. There's far worse, obviously - an economic downturn is widely predicted (I do not know the veracity of these claim, but it certainly seems a widely-held view). As a whole, the whole thing just seems like a mess that we could avoid.