He cheated, yeah. wrote:
He cheated, yeah.
Not proven, suppositions only, albeit strong ones.
The athletics people at Loyola H.S., where F.M coaches could, in theory, provide more insight into Frank.
Ghost in China
He cheated, yeah. wrote:
He cheated, yeah.
Not proven, suppositions only, albeit strong ones.
The athletics people at Loyola H.S., where F.M coaches could, in theory, provide more insight into Frank.
Ghost in China
Back on the 27th March (Page 2) Doubler / Derek Murphy said he was going to look into this. That was two weeks ago.
I would assume that if he had found nothing of significance he would have stated that by now. So either he has not had time to look, or has found significant anomalies. Does anyone have any info on Derek's investigation?
Ghost1 wrote:
He cheated, yeah. wrote:
He cheated, yeah.
Not proven, suppositions only, albeit strong ones.
The athletics people at Loyola H.S., where F.M coaches could, in theory, provide more insight into Frank.
Ghost in China
That's where this is most interesting to me, because Loyola is such a high profile and highly regarded program in California and sometimes nationally. "Doc" Meza has been there for years, he's not the head coach but is definitely a fixture enough that other coaches recognize him. If he cheated, I'd think the Loyola coaches and athletes would surely know?
dolfins wrote:
Ghost1 wrote:
Not proven, suppositions only, albeit strong ones.
The athletics people at Loyola H.S., where F.M coaches could, in theory, provide more insight into Frank.
Ghost in China
That's where this is most interesting to me, because Loyola is such a high profile and highly regarded program in California and sometimes nationally. "Doc" Meza has been there for years, he's not the head coach but is definitely a fixture enough that other coaches recognize him. If he cheated, I'd think the Loyola coaches and athletes would surely know?
Yes, the Loyola crew would know and if word gets out that the good doc. engaged in taking shortcuts to success in the marathon, his credibility and status would be damaged.
The best thing F.M. can do now would be to give his side of the story.
It is curious that no one approaches him, to get a more valuable picture regarding the different events he took part in
Ghost in China
Imagine if Frank had run either (or both) of these Marathons on sanctioned, certified and record eligible courses. AND broken the world record for 70-74. What then?
He ate putrid meat, but got out of his sickbed & dominated! Like the 90-year-old cyclist!
Ghost1 wrote:
dolfins wrote:
That's where this is most interesting to me, because Loyola is such a high profile and highly regarded program in California and sometimes nationally. "Doc" Meza has been there for years, he's not the head coach but is definitely a fixture enough that other coaches recognize him. If he cheated, I'd think the Loyola coaches and athletes would surely know?
Yes, the Loyola crew would know and if word gets out that the good doc. engaged in taking shortcuts to success in the marathon, his credibility and status would be damaged.
The best thing F.M. can do now would be to give his side of the story.
It is curious that no one approaches him, to get a more valuable picture regarding the different events he took part in
Ghost in China
If F.M. was cheating, the Loyola crew would definitely not know nor be trying to keep it a secret. They are a strong program with a good reputation, and their head coach Lalo Diaz would not stand for that, especially with their Catholic education that emphasizes integrity. If he was proven to be a cheater, I believe he would be outta there. If F.M. was cheating, I think the only people who would know would be himself and the people who are helping him get away with it.
...and LetsRun sleuths...
I’m not sure the Pope has even ruled on the Covington case, which got worldwide publicity.
I'm sure that Dr Frank M. knows of this site. Wish he would share his training with us. Wonder what his next race will be?
His public racing days are over.
And that’s a very good thing.
He is a fake.
A cheat.
And a small man.
See the link earlier in this thread showing the video of the finish. Maybe p3.
Mojo. wrote:
Er... wrote:
2018 LA at the top of the finish straight he pulls off a sweatshirt and tosses it to the side of the road and straightens his bib on a belt before running the last quarter mile. He’s not in many photos on course but the ones he’s in he’s wearing just a singlet.
Pics?
Splits are pretty unbelievable.
Any word on the great Frank Meza, MD?
I’ll bet he hasn’t run a race in public in months.
Cheating low no go snake.
Hey doubler can you give us an update on your research? Is your conclusion that Frank's times are legit?
doubler wrote:
Lots of people have reported Frank’s results to me.
I had looked at a couple of his prior races in detail (2017 LA for one) and couldn’t find anything that would lead me to conclude that he cheated. There is a photo of him off the side of the course during LA 2017, but that was well after he completed the race. I mention this because I’ve had emailers reference that as evidence, but it proves nothing.
I’m aware of CIM 2014. I agree that his DQ there merits extra scrutiny of his other results.
I do have a lot of photos and some video . I will look into everything with more scrutiny. But initially, there’s nothing that jumps out.
Researcher wrote:
Hey doubler can you give us an update on your research? Is your conclusion that Frank's times are legit?
doubler wrote:
Lots of people have reported Frank’s results to me.
I had looked at a couple of his prior races in detail (2017 LA for one) and couldn’t find anything that would lead me to conclude that he cheated. There is a photo of him off the side of the course during LA 2017, but that was well after he completed the race. I mention this because I’ve had emailers reference that as evidence, but it proves nothing.
I’m aware of CIM 2014. I agree that his DQ there merits extra scrutiny of his other results.
I do have a lot of photos and some video . I will look into everything with more scrutiny. But initially, there’s nothing that jumps out.
Did Derek (Doubler) write this before reviewing the full thread? There is a lot of good analysis on here to show why Meza's splits are beyond belief to anyone who has ever tried to set a PR in a marathon.
It seems like Marathon Investigation is only concerned with Instagram models and poor saps who make the unfortunate decision to accept a bib from someone.
Photos from the Pasadena Half-marathon..Jan. 20, 2019. Frank Meza 1:26:49 https://freephotos.finisherpix.com/photo/100457-100142-1005066460/8189/1
I don't know who this Derek (doubler) person is. Apparently, to some people, his is the final word on whether or not someone cheated in a marathon. Come on, oh-so-timid people! Do you really feel so much respect for authority that you have to have somebody "official" say something is so before you'll believe it? Are you old fogeys all blind? Like you guys, Ghost in China and Roderick Powell, you're kind of freaking me out. You're all back and forth with, oh, it looks kinda suspicious, but I guess I'll just take it on faith that he ran impossible splits as a 70 year-old, running 5k segments that alternate between age group records FOR THE FRIGGING 5K DURING A MARATHON with other 5k segments 5 minutes slower. After all, it's not strictly forbidden by the laws of physics, so I guess it might have happened, right? Maybe we should ask him?
I'm kind of tired of posting splits that show how obvious it is that he's a cheater. Some of you people could watch him cheat with your own eyes and still probably say, well, I might have been hallucinating, so I'd better give him the benefit of the doubt.
But here is one more useful illustration. Meza's 2018 LA Marathon splits, preceded by the guy who finished before him, and the guy who finished after him:
20:38, 21:22, 21:06, 20:51, 20:35, 20:40, 20:54, 21:00
20:32, 18:55, 22:03, 21:45, 19:39, 24:13, 19:44, 20:01
21:34, 21:54, 21:07, 20:44, 20:28, 20:54, 21:03, 20:24
Does anything stand out? I'll spell it out, then. 1st guy: normal, well-paced race. 2nd guy (Mez): impossible splits. 3rd guy: normal, well-paced race.
And to make it worse, the guys who finished one place before Meza and one place after were aged 27 and 24, respectively. Young guys like that might be expected to have a little more variation in pace, because young guys, talented or not, have more gears than old runners. Old runners are automatons. I don't mean that as an insult, but it's true: to run a good race, old runners have to run totally even splits. I challenge you to find me a single example (not including other Frank Meza performances) of a 65+ runner having a great race without running very even splits. I already posted Gene Dykes' splits from his best marathons. Total automaton.
Meza seems to have some SJW cred, so not a surprise that he might be fraudulent.
Those three sub 20 mins splits during the marathon, including one at 18.55 certainly raise eyebrows. If he can run a 18.55 split during a marathon, then this means he should be able to run at least one minute faster in a straight 5km race...let's say 17.55. Is Frank capable of that? Only time will tell, and if Frank does indeed race that distance, many of us will be waiting to see what kind of speed he can race for 5km. 18.55 in a regular 5k for guys his age (70+) would already be an outstanding performance.
Seems like the good doctor is laying low for the time being. Let us see what transpires in his next races and if he can confirm that kind of form, because everything is related.
If he did cheat, then he is something of a genius - akin to those master hackers - because he seems to have gone basically undetected for so long or with little reprimands for so long.
One feels somewhat sorry for Frank, because cheater or not, his name has already been tarnished to a large extent.
Ghost in China