Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unofficial time (just finished)

Occam’s razor - the simplest explanation is typically the correct one. Solo effort, bike only although willing accomplice not totally ruled out. I saw in some of the random pix those racks of city rental bikes where you rent by the hour or something and can drop off bike at any usual drop off point. That’s a possibility. Get one of those and none of your friends ask you why you are bringing your bike to a race.

In either case a bike is the simplest. In years past he has missed mats at other races. So not fool proof that he gets there every time.

Also remember that in some races it’s probably way less than 5k to get to next 5k checkpoint if the course turns etc and you can cut distance.

Keep it simple!

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

el hombre wrote:

I believe there have been a couple of photos showing him holding the lanyard close to the mat (to register), though I could be wrong. With regards to the start being the most complicated, the delayed start would mean he’d have time to be near the starting mat (but on the other side of the barrier) and swing it close enough to register (which he could check with live tracking on his phone that we believe he’s carrying in his pocket). Once his chip has “started” he can go to his bike (or car or accomplice) without having to run the opening stretch with crowds and barriers.

Yes, this was one of the reasons given for this being Kip's M.O.

Yep, and you don't get credit for that one, off course Oscar was the first to come up with that theory, not you.

"I'm not questioning that it's absolutely possible he had an accomplice, but why the hell would someone go along for that ride?"

This is the guy who had someone else threaten legal action against Amby, remember.

they're here wrote:

jesseriley wrote:

This is common, that elderly people who are fit all their lives at some point “feel” their age & gain weight & their metabolism changes. And they have a hard time facing this change.

says the conman elderly guy Jesse himself. break 24 for 5k yet?

I highly doubt that tool jesseriley broke 3 hours, unless he meant a half marathon.

RossiCheated wrote:

I once biked along with my wife while she ran Chicago in about 3:20. Of course I didn’t go on the course. I stayed on sidewalks and parallel streets. It was a nightmare. Much harder than I anticipated. Perhaps people who have done or spectated L.A. would say that it would be easier there, with fewer spectators, wider sidewalks, and accessible parallel streets.

I think it would be much easier on a point to point course where you are not boxed in by the course.

Chicago would be especially tough because it is a loop and it is a challenging course to cross over and get outside of that loop. On top of that, the fact that the loop is so tight - basically being separate by just one or two city blocks from about mile 2 through mile 13 - exacerbates that problem. The big crowds at Chicago would also make navigation tougher (in part because it is a course that lends itself to spectators moving around on the course to see their runners multiple times (it's an easy course on which to see a runner 3 or 4 times)).

What tremendous character and sanity you have.

stats don't match wrote:

they're here wrote:

says the conman elderly guy Jesse himself. break 24 for 5k yet?

I highly doubt that tool jesseriley broke 3 hours, unless he meant a half marathon.

Proof!

"I'm not questioning that it's absolutely possible he had an accomplice, but why the hell would someone go along for that ride?"

I think he's using at least 1 helper.

Why would people help him?

Easy: 1) money gain or 2) career gain.

In his position, it would be very easy for FM to trade a job recommendation for some marathon help.

this is not true, Dr Meza won in court , he has a distinguished legacy in the medical community and with the youth. do not get your hopes up about the supposed Los Angeles times article Meza won the race "fair and square" and he will be exonerated once again.

Latino Bambino wrote:

Yep, and you don't get credit for that one, off course Oscar was the first to come up with that theory, not you.

Much as it pains me to have a go at the mentally challenged, you're boring me now.

I stumbled onto the MI site and LR message boards on cheaters recently and couldn’t get enough. I agree with some people that it’s interesting to delve into the psychology of why someone would do this. Especially to the extent of Meza or Litton. It reminds me a lot of flat earther who can’t or won’t admit the truth. Also, the internet and social media have both fed into and exposed a flaw in many people. Something is missing from these people’s personal lives where they feel the need to get the attention they are craving/missing by posting awkward, weird, personal, etc, things on their FB and IG. Or to flat out lie about their accomplishments. I grew up right before social media and back from day one of MySpace recognized the fakeness of it and of many people on it. Yes, I know social media is good for many things, I’m just talking here specifically about its (mis) use by some people. I wonder how this online world of almost make believe will affect the younger generations growing up with it and knowing nothing else. Will they be able to truly see the difference between what’s real online and what isn’t? Will they develop healthy real world relationships or need corrosive online attention?

Now for my very small contribution to the actual discussion of cheaters in races. How about ‘an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.?’ I’m sure it’s been said before but how about hidden video cameras set up on the course? And it’s made known to every race entrant that there are hidden cameras. They won’t know where or how many. Wireless multi (like 12-16) camera systems are very affordable these days and I think would be a drop in the bucket in cost for the big races who are the ones that should be doing this. Of course not all races could or should do it but the big ones definitely can. And there are an almost infinite number of places a small camera can be hidden along these large race courses. Would Meza and others attempt to cheat on a course they knew there were multiple cameras on? I think it would cut down on the problem immensely. But I think races would be hesitant to do it because it doesn’t quite fit the whole feel good ethos of running and a running event to make the runners feel like they are under surveillance. The next best thing may be to use the video cameras but not announce it. There would be less of a deterrent effect but then they would have evidence when a cheating allegation is brought to their attention. Of course all 26.2 miles couldn’t be monitored but no one would know where the cameras are and with the hop on hop off type of cheats there would be a fairly good chance of getting them on video at least once. It would be much easier to prove than Derek having to turn into Sherlock Holmes and painstakingly piece together clues.

Derek, you are the subject matter expert on this. What do you think would be the best prevention for cheating?

Random timing mats, hidden around the course would probably work just as effectively as running in a surveillance state.

For liability reasons, etc., I can see races putting more drones and cameras on courses, but I'd really prefer not to have every damn aspect of my race documented.

If timing companies and or races did a better job analyzing the data they already collect, 99% of these cheaters would be nailed! CIM gets my respect for DQing Frank and banning him. LA Marathon had just as good of data on him and now they have even more thanks to this forum and Derek’s work, yet they are still dragging their feet.

A hearty thanks wrote:

doubler wrote:

I have been methodically gathering every piece of data going back one race at a time.

Every instant where I can place him in a location on a course with another runner, I am comparing/calculating splits.

Additionally, I will be looking at photos for all runners that finished about the same time as Frank at all races. There has to be more photographic evidence for the other races. The FinisherPix are easier to hunt through chronologically than Marathonfoto.

Also, I spoke with the LA Times reporter. Expect an article within a week.

-Derek

Thanks.

Your public humiliation efforts are greatly appreciated.

LOL

Kung Pow Chicken wrote:

Random timing mats, hidden around the course would probably work just as effectively as running in a surveillance state.

For liability reasons, etc., I can see races putting more drones and cameras on courses, but I'd really prefer not to have every damn aspect of my race documented.

Yup. Unpublished mats, and change them up year to year. On course video at likely cut spots like with Phoenix. Also they can just be antennas, and not obvious mats.

The best evidence I’ve found over the past 4 years is video. If you don’t appear in a video that covers the entire width of the course, you have no defense.

ExpertKipWatcher wrote:

Latino Bambino wrote:

Yep, and you don't get credit for that one, off course Oscar was the first to come up with that theory, not you.

Much as it pains me to have a go at the mentally challenged, you're boring me now.

Mentally challenged or not, he is correct.

Science wrote:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOv8_iDJMY13-W7VLe4smicSit0znQ_m38lY8KmOk6SQiog7fFruaUqrqUNJh4gOg?key=SWNWeHF1dGVZSmRFbFZMZVRwWkxac2R4Y1A0X0Jn

Great map! It makes it clear that the first 5K would be the easiest to take care of, and most splits allow a shorter tangent by bike.

Derek, from the high-res photos can you tell what his inside out shirt says in reverse? It doesn’t quite look like the race volunteer shirts but a similar hue that might let him hang around the start line unnoticed.