Frank Meza 2:53:10 at LA Marathon (70 years old) unoffical time (just finished)
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People who "investigate" seem to do quite an amateur job. If you look at Frank's splits in almost all of his Marathons, he runs a fast first 10 k and last 10k. Not much slower in the middle. Their too, are many pictures of Frank throughout the LA Marathon. The picture of Frank where he crosses a mat is at the 10k mark. The guy in the orange shirt is bib 16809. (frank beat him by 9 minutes in the end. Do some real research and will leave no doubt as to the truth. Frank is a gifted runner. He seemed to find time as he turned 60 to dedicate himself to his gifts as a runner. Thus he probably has "fresh legs". I have followed him for years, because I found it interesting that he improves as he ages. I believe this is through the same base build-up as young marathon runners, who generally peak at 28 and older. Frank is the real deal. As for seeing someone walk off a course, than come back and kick it in...i see that now and then, including my last half marathon. (guy I was running with dropped out, than caught and passed me around 4 miles later, said he had to "go to the bathroom"......not some sinister plot)
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Hopefully someone has the time and expertise to take a deep dive in to this situation...Marathoninvestigation.com?
If he really ran those times, he deserves all the glory and accolades of an amazing series of results. But our sport, its records, and verified record setters deserve certainty regarding the integrity of official times.
Here are a few issues of concern for me;
1) He was originally lauded by Runners World in 2015 as one of its Masters Runners of the Year for his 2:52:33 finish at the 2014 California International Marathon (https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20848209/2014-masters-long-distance-runners-of-the-year/). But this results was later scrubbed from the official results of CIM when it was discovered that Meza had missed several timing mats AND apparently did not appear in race photos throughout the course. There is another discussion thread on Letsrun that mentions this situation.
2) A quick search of various results shows that Meza ran solid times for his age while he has in his late fifties and early sixties but nothing like the times he has been posting since the 2014 CIM (at times age grades above 95%!).
3) I did a somewhat thorough exploration of his 2017 and 2018 Long Beach Marathon photos. I found no photos on the back side of the course. I am familiar with this race. If you run that fast, you are alone on the back side of the course. Race photographers would have many photos of you. Other racers of his speed in those same races have dozens of photos throughout the course. He does not.
4) Now somewhat obsessed I checked out his LA Marathon results from the year of the CIM controversy. Very strange. He ran a 25:01 5K from 15K to 20K...then followed it up with AN 18:34 FROM 20k TO 25k. Again, I found no photos of him in the middle section of the course. He reappears in photos late in the race.
If the guy is setting world records, he deserves the praise and glory. But based on the CIM DQ in 2014, I think race officials should triple check their video footage or any other technology they have available to verify his performances since they are being touted as World Record setting performances: http://athletics.loyolahs.edu/2017-2018/cross-country/news/loyola-trackxc-well-represented-over-the-weekend-setting-schoolusworld-records -
Rabbitrunner wrote:
Hopefully someone has the time and expertise to take a deep dive in to this situation...Marathoninvestigation.com?
If he really ran those times, he deserves all the glory and accolades of an amazing series of results. But our sport, its records, and verified record setters deserve certainty regarding the integrity of official times.
Here are a few issues of concern for me;
1) He was originally lauded by Runners World in 2015 as one of its Masters Runners of the Year for his 2:52:33 finish at the 2014 California International Marathon (https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20848209/2014-masters-long-distance-runners-of-the-year/). But this results was later scrubbed from the official results of CIM when it was discovered that Meza had missed several timing mats AND apparently did not appear in race photos throughout the course. There is another discussion thread on Letsrun that mentions this situation.
2) A quick search of various results shows that Meza ran solid times for his age while he has in his late fifties and early sixties but nothing like the times he has been posting since the 2014 CIM (at times age grades above 95%!).
3) I did a somewhat thorough exploration of his 2017 and 2018 Long Beach Marathon photos. I found no photos on the back side of the course. I am familiar with this race. If you run that fast, you are alone on the back side of the course. Race photographers would have many photos of you. Other racers of his speed in those same races have dozens of photos throughout the course. He does not.
4) Now somewhat obsessed I checked out his LA Marathon results from the year of the CIM controversy. Very strange. He ran a 25:01 5K from 15K to 20K...then followed it up with AN 18:34 FROM 20k TO 25k. Again, I found no photos of him in the middle section of the course. He reappears in photos late in the race.
If the guy is setting world records, he deserves the praise and glory. But based on the CIM DQ in 2014, I think race officials should triple check their video footage or any other technology they have available to verify his performances since they are being touted as World Record setting performances: http://athletics.loyolahs.edu/2017-2018/cross-country/news/loyola-trackxc-well-represented-over-the-weekend-setting-schoolusworld-records
If what you say is true about the 18.34 5k split from 20-25k, following an earlier 25 mins 5k split -then there is serious doubt that Frank completed the distance properly on his own, or without cheating. A guy who runs 5k split during a marathon as fast as his all out 5k in a race -this looks extremely suspicious.
Sad, because watching Meza on Youtube -he seems like a good guy. -
That Loyola article notes the Sprouts Mesa PHX Marathon time is better than the US and World Record for 70+ athletes. That's likely to generate some scrutiny.
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I'm just telling you ... stop responding to yourself.
Researcher wrote:
He's got a point. A really quick search of a few of his races shows a weirdly low number of photos, almost all of them at the finish. I'd never heard of this guy until yesterday. Are there rumors about him? Is there a reason he hasn't attracted more attention?
Not Possible wrote:
Search for images from ANY of his marathons and you will find a troubling lack of photos in comparison to others of his speed.
Search for images of Sunday's LA Marathon. Why is he not pictured in ANY images on the course (search for bib #1151)? But others that hit split mats at nearly the same exact time appear in DOZENS of photos (bib #3252, bib #18573, bib #1148)...
I'm just saying... -
The picture of Frank with the guy in an orange short (bib 16809 Dalmay) at the 10k timing mat disproves that. Some real "research" would show you clearly that what you wrote is untrue. There are many photos of Frank throughout the race. Frank seems to prefer wearing his bib on his shorts. This may explain the reduction in photos. Look at the still photos of Frank. He looks like the sterotype of a 70 year old record setting marathoner. (and he seems to not be sucking in that stomach) Their are many people who must have run with Frank in these events. Ask them if he is the real deal. I will bet the answer is absolutely. Do you really think this quintessential nice guy has been pulling a many year scam, involving many high profile marathons. Do you really think it is that easy to "jump back in" repeatedly and never be caught. Let's see when Frank beats the record on a course certified and sanctioned. It will probably take the course officials to apply for the record, as Frank does not seem to seek glory. Of all the guys to accuse, Frank seems to be the least likely. As a 62 year old runner myself, it does not seem impossible to turn around six weeks later and run another 2:53. (which may be actually 2:53:09 -not 2:53:10) Their are plenty of running books that detail schedules just for such a turn around. Gene Dykes runs quite a tight schedule, including 100 and 200 milers. Or is it 50 and 100. Either way that impresses me.
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Lots of people have reported Frank’s results to me.
I had looked at a couple of his prior races in detail (2017 LA for one) and couldn’t find anything that would lead me to conclude that he cheated. There is a photo of him off the side of the course during LA 2017, but that was well after he completed the race. I mention this because I’ve had emailers reference that as evidence, but it proves nothing.
I’m aware of CIM 2014. I agree that his DQ there merits extra scrutiny of his other results.
I do have a lot of photos and some video . I will look into everything with more scrutiny. But initially, there’s nothing that jumps out. -
Not sure why Meza's bib wouldn' t be visible throughout a race...it's a USATF requirement. Obscuring of the bib came up in the Mary Akor story at Marathoninvestigation.com. According to that article, "In addition obscuring a bib could also lead to disqualification: USATF Rule 143 states the following: If one bib is provided, it must be worn visibly on the front."
It appears from the photos that do exist that Meza wears two devices on his wrist. It appears that one is a Garmin or similar device. Perhaps Meza could put the rumors to rest by providing the data from these record setting runs??? -
I have been told that he has been DQd THREE times at CIM -- one of the few races that takes their results seriously and has "secret" cheater checkpoints and throughly reviews their results/splits/photos. They might be too agressive wth their DQs, but it should at least be a red flag to other race directors and timing companies of the races Frank runs.
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I hope the guy's legit. No ax to grind here. I am curious why in some races he appears to wear his bib on a belt. That seems to me like it would be uncomfortable.
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What is the point of this post? He is a highly accomplished runner who doesn't seem to care for publicity and public accolades. This man was raised in East LA by a single immigrant mother who worked as a seamstress and spoke little English. To say that he and his mom were poor is an understatement. The fact that he became a successful doctor meant he already defeated the odds against him in life.
I know this man personally and I assure you, he runs because he loves it. He doesn't really care if anyone else notices or not. The disqualifications and missed mats happened because honestly (when you are a fast runner, the mats don't always pick up on the chips), he was a little upset, but shrugged it off. As far as pictures being taken, he doesn't even notice cameras or his bib may not have even been showing (like I said, he's a private guy and he knows what he can do).
Again, I never get the sense that he really cares whether or not the world thinks he's great. He's already doing great in many aspects of his life personally and professionally (not related to running). So, feel free to argue or be a non believer, I don't think he cares. But, I assure you, he is not a cheater, he's just a simple man who loves to run. If you still don't believe, go ahead and physically follow him on his next race and please stop posting about stupid cheating ideas, it diminishes the whole sport and the spirit of running. If you all ever met him, you would understand. -
Logistically the evidence points in his favor. I can’t imagine how you’d get a bib across all those mats in his most recent LA marathon with that consistency unless running yourself.
But you can’t be surprised people want to know more about him and his performances. No matter what you do to get serious between your early 60s and early 70s, a half hour improvment is remarkable—especially when it brings you to the fastest time ever run by somebody ever at the age. Simply amazing! -
Not Possible wrote:
Not sure what a "moran" is, but you missed my point.
Ha, not sure what a moran is?!
What a moran! -
Banana Beard wrote:
Not Possible wrote:
Not sure what a "moran" is, but you missed my point.
Ha, not sure what a moran is?!
What a moran!
That troll is obviously new here. Makes even more of a loser than he already was. -
I agree that the even splits in LA would be difficult to produce by cutting the course or having someone else carry the bib. Definitely seems to indicate that Meza ran the event.
But if in fact he was DQ’d three times at another marathon and he posted these amazing times at his age within 6 weeks of each other (Phoenix/Mesa to LA) then I’m fine with strict scrutiny. Check the pics. Check the videos. Check the Garmin data. Talk to other sub-3 runners in those races.
Just hearing from other posters that he’s a really nice guy isn’t enough for me. That apparently didn’t satisfy the CIM officials did it?? -
Just as drug testing is required for track records, course completion verification should be pursued on road courses, as a matter of routine.
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Frank may very well break the 70-74 record in October in Long beach. He missed Ed Whitlock's 69 year old single age record by 37 seconds in Oct. 2018. His times have gradually been faster there for the last few years. (seems by amazingly patient discipline) This year should be the same. Also...What is so impressive is that Ed Whitlock was 73y/204d when he ran his 2:54:48. The expected increase in your time year by year makes it tough to compete against a 70 year old when you are almost 74. No problem at all for Ed Whitlock. The barrier breaking record to be gone after for men and women, is to be the oldest person to break 3:00:00. Christine Kennedy would have done it at 60 if not for an unfortunate non-running injury.
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Since this doesn’t concern me I will give my opinion.
Why does this guy keep having problems getting his photos taken along the way? I don’t recall this happening with Whitlock or Dykes. Did any runner come to his defense when he was running CIM? Is that true that he was disqualified 3 times at CIM? Once a cheater always a cheater. It shouldn’t be that hard to prove you ran a marathon. -
Fred Gwynne wrote:
So sad, that you posting under different names supporting your own "opinion." So sad. -
once again wrote:
Fred Gwynne wrote:
So sad, that you posting under different names supporting your own "opinion." So sad.
This is my second post to this thread. My opinion is he is a cheater.
