FAT timing systems are expensive

matt_london_413 wrote:

Marooon wrote:

Moron.

FAT isn't a brand or a company, it's a method timing system.

Never said it was moron.

If you had the IQ level to understand what I meant then you would have read it the right way.

I stated that nobody produces an efficient timing system for a cheap price as good as the expensive FAT ones.

This is what you said idjit. "The fact that nobody has made an efficient timing system as good as FAT just goes to show the monoply they hold over all other timing systems. "

What "other" timing systems could you possibly be talking about?

I used to have trouble getting my runners to wear a watch. They either quit or they invested $5 in a watch. When we got to New York, I’m not sure they ever threw away a minute of their lives ever again!

Marooon wrote:

matt_london_413 wrote:

Never said it was moron.

If you had the IQ level to understand what I meant then you would have read it the right way.

I stated that nobody produces an efficient timing system for a cheap price as good as the expensive FAT ones.

This is what you said idjit. "The fact that nobody has made an efficient timing system as good as FAT just goes to show the monoply they hold over all other timing systems. "

What "other" timing systems could you possibly be talking about?

You don't have a high enough IQ level for me to interact with you at this point... You're like at insect IQ level right now.

Another option is Flash Timing, they have a cheaper FAT system for about $2600, and you don’t need to have the kids wear anything or buy extra stuff. You can use their system for timing meets too and it’s probably good enough for smaller high school meets:http://flashtiming.com/fat-solutions-2019/

cotton shirt wrote:

I'm not particularly interested in super-accurate timing. I have two main priorities:

1. releasing me from the task of being a data collector so that I can concentrate on being a coach.

This is where volunteer coaches are really helpful. My team always had a handful of alumni, college kids, and local runners who were happy to show up a couple days per week and run a stopwatch and help the coach out. Have you tried recruiting anyone to do this?

I don't get this whole thread. It is obvious the original poster is not interested in a FAT timing system whether it be FinishLynx or some other FAT unit. He wants to automatically record workout times, because he doesn't want to time the athletes, but rather coach.

So here is my problem with that. Coach what? The pole vault? The sprints? Or watch these athletes do their reps, but not yell out times as they go by and then record them?

He/she also states kids don't wear watches. Now, it sounds like he might be in England or some other country, but in the 50 years plus of coaching here in the states, kids wear watches if you ask them to, especially middle distance and distance kids.

Here is another bit of experience. When I ran workouts, I remembered every split I ever ran during a particular workout and then I would write down those splits in my log. Now, not all athletes keep logs and getting them to do that is a bit harder than getting them to wear watches, but logs are good. With on line logs now available or google sheets, kids can record their workouts and the coach can view those workouts. Put some of the responsibility of recording workouts on the kids. It is good for them.

I also have always followed a progressive workout program so I know from one week to the next where we are in our periodization and progressions and don't really have to look at previous workouts to figure out if an athlete is moving forward or not. That is my job to know that just from being at practice and working with them every day. I would find it frustrating to not know how a workout is going without using a stop watch and checking the times for the reps.

So, no fancy equipment needed, just some common sense and organizational skills and problem is solved.

Designed and developed by a man in Sweden with a PhD in aerospace engineering who is now retired and use to run the hurdles. His apps are only for Apple iOS. I’ve used this app and it is amazing. It can be used to time longer events. I think you could even use it to time a cross country race. It supports different languages so you can have the robo-starter say “On your marks. Set” in a bunch of different languages.

URL:

appmaker.se/home/sprinttimer

Disclaimer: I have no association with this product or the developer. I am only a happy user.

Here is the Apple store link which shows reviews from user: https://itunes.apple.com/app/id430807521?mt=8

Leddy Gee wrote:

It is extremely difficult to get high school kids to wear a watch. Even when every single run that you have them do is based on time. They just won't wear a watch.

Wtf find other kids. Every kid on my team wears a watch and things have worked perfectly. Of course I have only coached almost 35 years.

Creating FAT timing at $ 8-1,000 should be no problem. It will not be very advanced, but for small meets it will be very fine.

All you really need is a high-speed video camera. Even the 120fps you get for a few hundred bucks gives you a +/- .01 margin of error.

Matt London FAT timing results (2013)

100m 11.93 w 1.5

400m 53.94 (WR over 210 lbs for 6 feet or less).

I've heard of coach's and athletes saying that it would be easier if their school had their own timing equipment. First off just think about all the added work, you need to know how to set the equipment up correctly, run the software(Know how to fix it when something goes wrong), know how to upload data files, know how to trouble shot amongst other things. Then you need to have people to work/volunteer.

I work for a timing company in my spare time and a lot of people have used the company for years then decide oh we can do this ourselves then guess what next year they contract us again.

A lot of the return customers give the same feed back.

We'd rather have accurate timing, rather then a system that could fail us that we don't know how to fix, or they simply forget that timing companies also provide entertainment as well such as music.

Best of Luck

cotton shirt wrote:

I am also a coach, and I thought about getting one of those timing mats they use in road races. how much can a timing mat and thirty of those chip tags cost?

note: this would be for training only, you couldn't time track races like this.

Timer wrote:

If you happen to invest in race result I will tell you that their results interface ans live results interfaces are total crap so you'll have to hire a developer to implement something better (like a mocked version of hytek) using the developer api.

Race|Result in fact have the simplest software ever, as a non IT person it allows me to customise my scoring and outputs with almost infinite possibilities by just using simple excel like 'code' and if you don't know the fields/strings etc, just click on their Knowledge Base.

If you can't understand R|R software you shouldn't be allowed near a computer, let alone a timing system

In terms of simple timing for training, you could go with one passive system $5K plus disposable chips are only $1.10 each, remote to laptop, software is free if not published online on their portal.

Passive read rate can be up 5 misses/1000 and resolution (precision) >0.5 sec

Or better for track (better resolution and read rate) is an Active system, full system used for big events is $4K, additional Loop Boxes $2.3K, or simpler for your size just a USB timing box ( fits in your pocket) with loop, $3K

The active chips are $65.00 (ultra high precision 0.01 sec) or $40.00 (0.2 sec) each.....but the runners can own them.

There are cheaper solutions, build your own, check Brian Agee out, own readers etc...but for the trouble and repetitive accurate requirement, the R|R active example will do job

You don't need Finish Lynx cameras etc, you are not timing the Diamond League

cheers

SprintTimer for the win! wrote:

Designed and developed by a man in Sweden with a PhD in aerospace engineering who is now retired and use to run the hurdles. His apps are only for Apple iOS. I’ve used this app and it is amazing. It can be used to time longer events. I think you could even use it to time a cross country race. It supports different languages so you can have the robo-starter say “On your marks. Set” in a bunch of different languages.

Just saw this...absolutely will do job for the track coach

If this is the same as the one i experimented with a few years back, my issue was the fact it still had to be manually started. Given that it takes nearly 0.3 for sound to travel 100m, that didn't really work for me.

For training I think Freelap is the best option - cheaper than most (but still not cheap unfortunately) and accurate.

For those saying just use a watch, if you're doing anything over 200m I'd be inclined to agree, but it's only a very rough guide for anything shorter - why coaches hand time a pack of 6 sprinters running 50m reps is beyond me!

SprintTimer for the win! wrote:

Designed and developed by a man in Sweden with a PhD in aerospace engineering who is now retired and use to run the hurdles. His apps are only for Apple iOS. I’ve used this app and it is amazing. It can be used to time longer events. I think you could even use it to time a cross country race. It supports different languages so you can have the robo-starter say “On your marks. Set” in a bunch of different languages.

URL:

appmaker.se/home/sprinttimer

Disclaimer: I have no association with this product or the developer. I am only a happy user.

Can't believe it took this long to mention sprint timer.

It is ridiculously close to FAT.

If you're tired of your 1st place guys being hand timed slower than the 3rd place guy, then a camera and an app or an option for getting times.

I've unofficially timed meets with a GoPro for several years and have gotten respectable results. Several years ago, our 100 meter guy won a race and got completely overlooked by the timers - and he was running in Lane 1!

My "poor man's" FAT was so close to the actual FAT times (within .02") that in many cases it was spot on. And a lot closer than hand-timed results which tended to be all over the place when the starter was using the now ubiquitous smokeless shells. I started doing this a couple years ago to get times for all of my runners and not just the standard top 3 provided to us in most dual meets. BTW, you can do the same thing with your cell phone camera and a Coaches Eye app.

I also utilize the GoPro for getting splits in distance events as well as position data during XC meets.

Since you can change video modes with the GoPro, you can get high speed video > 100 fps. WVGA records at 240 fps but the resolution is very low. I found 720 running at 120 fps or 720 Super View @ 100 fps worked well. I used the stopwatch feature on the Coaches Eye app to get times. I've experimented using Flash Timing Systems old 60 fps timing demo with some success. However, their old system did use a 60 fps camera so their is some error built in.

The downside to using a GoPro is that it's not designed for telephoto shots and unless you're adept at picking the smoke out of the background, you could get spotty results if there's a white wall in the background. Also, it really sucks if the starter's using smokeless rounds against a white painted wall . . . which I don't recommend. If you can hear the sound of the gun on the video, you can estimate the approximate starting time. Also, you can double check your results against the hand times.

It does works pretty well for events that start close to the start/finish line. It really helps if you're right on top of the starter.

I used this method at every one of our meets last year where the home teams were using stopwatches.

Sure, it's not true FAT. But it's a lot closer than what some of the dad's are giving us at many meets.

Damn dude, you went off