Sondre Moen happy to be healthy, looking for 2nd fastest half marathon ever on Sunday

Renato I understand you cannot control doping of athletes. But tell me, does it seem strange that Sondre was being coached by a very known dirty coach who has doped athletes in the past? Same coach lost his license in Norway to coach for constant cheating. You know who Im referring to or at least Sondre does. Sindre buraas was also with this coach and both your athlete and him saw huge performance drops which left many in their home country to believe they were doping as this coach was known to push that on his top athletes. Interesting that Sindre retired quick and left that group recently. Are you concerned any of your athletes use drugs without your knowledge?

I have become such a Moen fan after Fukuoka; super happy to see his successes. It's a gut feeling, but I just sense the motivation, hunger, and genuine excitement he has for the sport. No bs or showboating, just hard work.

I do not have any evidence to cast even a shroud of doubt he is clean. I would be crushed if it was ever confirmed otherwise. Would probably be the last straw to disowning the sport entirely if so. Until then, I'm going to be as happy as I was when I was a highschooler following running on DyeStat, and no LR fool is going to ruin it for me.

Renato, i always appreciate your contributions to these discussions. Would you be willing to share some of Sondre’s training leading into this race?

Norvegian wrote:

Renato I understand you cannot control doping of athletes. But tell me, does it seem strange that Sondre was being coached by a very known dirty coach who has doped athletes in the past? Same coach lost his license in Norway to coach for constant cheating. You know who Im referring to or at least Sondre does. Sindre buraas was also with this coach and both your athlete and him saw huge performance drops which left many in their home country to believe they were doping as this coach was known to push that on his top athletes. Interesting that Sindre retired quick and left that group recently. Are you concerned any of your athletes use drugs without your knowledge?

1. Tell me ONE person who he has coached that has been taken for doping?

2. Yes, he lost his license to coach for falsifying a license to practice medicine. Yes, it is extremely serious, but as far as the norwegian court system (or anyone else), this has nothing to do with sports or doping.

3. Sindre was also with this coach, yes. But his performances has always fluctuated extremely, from 13:09 to abysmal performances, and his career was already on a downwards trajectory before he left the coach.

4. They did improve under his tutelage, but Sondre and Sindre were young athletes when they starter, and thus still had large margins for improvement. And once being coached by this man, they became part of a group with good financial resources that, among other things, allowed them to go to altitude camps many times a year and to drop their education.

5. Very few in Norway actually knew anything about the coach and even fewer believed they were doping. Looking at their performances in both running and XC-skiing, no one was surprised they turned out to be really good runners.

You try to clim on the glass for showing you have reason.

Ding Changqin was positive for EPO before National Games 2017. You don't know that National Games are the ONLY important competition for all the coaches of the Provinces : if an athlete wins, sometimes the Province can give to both athlete and coach a big gift (for example, one apartment).

This means that the Provincial coaches try everything in order to have athletes winning. You have also to know that the level of the provincial coaches is very low, and traditionally they believe in some doping more than in some training.

On the side of the athletes, I never met some Chinese female athlete asking WHY they had to do some training, or WHY they have to take some medicine. Very simply, they obey.

In this situation, immediately before the marathon of National Games 2017, the provincial coach of Ding Changqin probably gave her EPO, thinking she could run faster. And the same happened to Zhang Yingying, representing another Province.

Sorry to inform you that I left my role of head coach of middle and long distances in China immediately after WCh 2015, because it was not possible to have some organization working in right way, exactly for the influence of the Provinces, that are the one paying the salary to athletes and coaches, while the Central Federation is interested to have international results in very clean way, but really doesn't have power against the Provinces.

So, your name is something out of the basket. I had two years of coaching with Ding and Yingying, they always were absolutely clean, they ran faster than after I left China, I never could have some talk with them without the intervention of some translator (nobody in the chinese team spoke English), and for that reason I could not do the normal way I use for educating athletes about training, doping and ethics.

I already explained in the past the situation. If you continue to repeat the same lie, is because or are somebody not able to read and to understand, or you are a "criminal mind" trying to calumniate me, I don't know the reason, because we never met, and of course I don't need to meet a stupid lier like you.

Sondre explained me what happened with the old coach, who acted as a doctor when didn't have the degree and the license. Particularly, he operated injections (not doping, but connected with the solution of injuries), something was not allowed to do.

I was with Sondre last year for more than 250 days, and I learn to know very well the guy. I can put my hands on fire that NEVER he thought, for one second, about the option to take something. All what he did was not only clean, but also without any external aid (like vitamins or supplements), something not in his mind, also before starting with me as coach.

About the first assumption ( I understand you cannot control doping of athletes), I don't agree.

When the athletes are together in one training camp, and I'm together with them, and we have 3 times per week talks about effects of training, effects of doping, how to recover, how to compete, how to live in professional way, how to eat, how to act everfy day, how to face injuries, when we organize all in this way, and we believe in what we do, I can very well control not the doping of the athletes, but the athletes themselves, WHO DON'T HAVE ANY MOTIVATION TO DOPE, being able to reach the top with training only, and in clean way.

Not all the athletes have the same mentality, the same ethic, the same stimuli. The fact is that something not having the ethics and the stimuli, fruit of a correct mentality, can't find place in the group of athletes we are growing, because I don't want any rotten apple in the basket.

Here is what you wrote:

So, now when you write that "some of my athlete of the past....can use something illegal" what you really mean is "except for some of the athlete of the past who used something illegal, none of the athletes of my past...can use something illegal..."

You have coached people who have doped. It is not debatable. Interesting that posting historical facts on here about dopers and their coach is enough to get my post deleted.

Not going to keep going and list all of your former athletes who have been suspended for doping. Letsrun.com will just take down the post. It's a long list.

"Sondre explained me what happened with the old coach, who acted as a doctor when didn't have the degree and the license". Particularly, he operated injections (not doping, but connected with the solution of injuries), something was not allowed to do.

Please explain, your not being very particular when you say "operated injections" Objectively injections can be hgh, cortisol, epo, RBC via blood and you can actually do all of these at a micro level(gray area)

Please don't regard this as a personal attack but you've had past statements, "epo doesn't work on Kenyans" so these examples warrant speculation on the very premise of objective reporting something that LRC have always had in mind. The personal name calling maybe a bit too much but the generalized statement, "injecting, not doping" not enough.

On another perhaps lighter note would be a great read for all of Sondre's training the last 15 weeks.

Let's be clear Renato won't give you real answers because everyone knows he is affiliated with dirty athletes that are just smart enough to beat system. If we look at the athlete Sondre's old coach worked with Marius bakken you will notice bakken had "blood problems" and cited blood poisoning. He was completely clean with no issues before working with this Norwegian coach. Renato you have to be absolutely idiot to sit here and say he didn't dope them but gave other injection. Marius retired very quickly when the tests for epo improved. Also note that Sondre and his old teammates were working together with this dirty coach consulting with a popular and well researched EPO researcher. Renato do you deny this? Sondre can't deny it. May e you didn't know??

Alsal was accused of being a doctor handing out medication and USADA thought it was ok. no harm , no foul.

Just do it!! wrote:

I'm just wondering if Moen will be going for the Euro record in the half in Prague now that he knows he is in great shape?

His result certainly already indicates that on a flat course in good weather and great pacers/competition he is good for sub 60. Likely even a sub 59:30.

Would be fun competition between him and Wanders to bring that record to below 59.

It seems Wanders is on a much more upward trajectory than Moen. He is quite a bit younger. I don't see Moen below 59 but perhaps 59:15-20. Just not as fast as Wanders who I firmly believe can go 58:45 or below.

Norvegian wrote:

Let's be clear Renato won't give you real answers because everyone knows he is affiliated with dirty athletes that are just smart enough to beat system. If we look at the athlete Sondre's old coach worked with Marius bakken you will notice bakken had "blood problems" and cited blood poisoning. He was completely clean with no issues before working with this Norwegian coach. Renato you have to be absolutely idiot to sit here and say he didn't dope them but gave other injection. Marius retired very quickly when the tests for epo improved. Also note that Sondre and his old teammates were working together with this dirty coach consulting with a popular and well researched EPO researcher. Renato do you deny this? Sondre can't deny it. May e you didn't know??

Renato is in Japan, LRC can go there & have the podcast with great guests Yuki and his agent Brent Larner of Japan running blogspot.

Ding also had suspicious blood values during the time she was in camp with Renato in preparation for the Asian games. We know for a fact that there was EPO present and being administered during that camp.

Japanese corporate teams do Vitamin B injections with their marathon groups. It is also practiced in high school athletics, York XC back in the day did this as well.

kjajj wrote:

Japanese corporate teams do Vitamin B injections with their marathon groups. It is also practiced in high school athletics, York XC back in the day did this as well.

Are they also doing iron injections?

This is very weird wrote:

kjajj wrote:

Japanese corporate teams do Vitamin B injections with their marathon groups. It is also practiced in high school athletics, York XC back in the day did this as well.

Are they also doing iron injections?

That makes sense as ive seen this used for vegetarians who are always lower in B's, specifically B12 bringing up ferratin, hemo, crit, RBC, and existing iron moreso than just taking supp iron.

As far as suspicious blood values in East Africa/training camps there should be an organization to monitor monthly otherwise going from doping down to micro this is just a superior (off the grid) drug lab. The big city marathons, and agents/coaches now spreading in millions of income makes this discussion turn to a good/bad motive.

Out of the Europeans who relocate to East Africa why choose Kenya? Why not Ethiopia? Ethiopia seems far more interesting to me.

My friend, if you want to be a lier, try to speak about something that nobody knows, not to lie about facts very clear and opposite to what you want to demostrate.

"We know for a fact that there was EPO present and being administered during that camp."

First thing, you can't know for a fact that there was EPO present and being administered during that camp.

The fact is there was one athlete (Anna Yin) that was sent by the Federation to the final training camp before Asian Games in Duoba (2400m altitude), after running 3000 steeple in 9'40"50 in Jinan on 11th July.

This happened for the pressure the Province did with the Federation, because they wanted to have the athlete in the Asian Games.

Anna Yin joined the camp together her coach, on 18th of July, when already the other athletes were in Duoba.

While with all the other coaches we were able to build good relations, discussing the training every day, with the coach of Anna Yin it was not possible to create any link, because he refused to discuss also with the other Chinese coaches, and didn't want to share his training with anybody else.

Since Duoba has a very good lab for analysis, I wanted to use this for having EVERY WEEK a blood test, in order to see the development of all the values DURING the period of altitude, not only before and after.

Anna Yin had the first test on 21st July, and immediately I saw something strange. After the third test (4th August) I asked the Chinese Antidoping to come for controlling the athlete, because her values were not usual.

Here there are the values for every test : Hb, Hct, RBC, MCV and Testosterone.

21.07 : 16.2 - 44.7 - 5.54 - 80.7 - 84.60

28.07 : 15.9 - 43.7 - 5.68 - 76.9 - 79,12

04.08 : 16.5 - 43.3 - 5.35 - 81.0 - 78.22

11.08 : 15.8 - 41.8 - 5.11 - 81.8 - 69.82

18.08 : 15.5 - 41.3 - 5.07 - 81.4 - 56.74

25.08 : 15.3 - 42.8 - 5.11 - 83.7 - 50.53

The officials of antidoping came Duoba every 10 days, and all the athletes of the National Team were tested. This happened not only for the runners, but also for all the athletes in the Team for Asian Games, in every event, and in every training camp (at the end of the season, the antidoping of China had more than 5,000 tests !).

Anna Yin, like some men, were not tested, because were not part of the Team for Asian Games. In China, there is a lot of bureaucracy, and it's very difficult to change something already decided months before.

In any case, following my requests, Chinese antidoping tested her on 22nd Aug, for the first time.

The federation asked Anna Yin to compete in France (Decanation in Angeres, on 30th Aug) because I decided not to send there the number one, Li Zhenzhu, already in the National Team form the beginning of my role as head coach of endurance, since I looked for a medal in Guangzhou.

Anna Yin in Angers was 4th with 9'58"41, and when came back the Antidoping wrote to the Federation she was doped, with testosterone and GH. For avoiding any contrast with the Province, Anna Yin was asked for a new control on 7th September, and they found also EPO in the urine. For that reason she was banned for 2 years, and not included in the Team going to Guangzhou.

So, it's not possible to say that in the camp EPO was administered. This was something absolutely individual, in a way that made me suspicious (together with the analysis of values out of every reasonable range), and myself, and the Federation, quickly acted for discovering the cheat.

"Ding also had suspicious blood values during the time she was in camp with Renato in preparation for the Asian games. ".

This claim is absolutely not true.

These are the values of Ding Changqin, values I already published in LR years ago :

16.07 : 13.2 - 36.5 - 4.52 - 80.7 - 20.70 (still at sea level)

21.07 : 13.0 - 36.8 - 4.42 - 83.2 - 21.46 (in Duoba)

28.07 : 13.3 - 36.7 - 4.53 - 81.1 - 18.93

04.08 : 13,9 - 37.4 - 4.62 - 80.8 - 28.64

11.08 : 14.3 - 37.8 - 4.66 - 81.1 - 24.41

18.08 : 13.9 - 38.1 - 4.73 - 81.1 - 30.34

02.09 : 12.5 - 35.1 - 4.06 - 86.4 - 28.10

09.09 : 13.2 - 36.4 - 4.19 - 86.9 - 29.36

16.09 : 12.7 - 36.0 - 3.98 - 90.6 - 27.44 (again at sea level)

Ding Changqin ran her first race on 27.09 (2nd in 10000m in 31'53"09, PB after leading all the race, with 15'33" the second half), and 5000m on 2.10 (3rd in 15'12"51, again PB, and again after pacing till last lap).

I remember that I showed the values as example that not always, after a long period in altitude, we have increment in Hb and Hct. In the case of Ding, she had values LOWER than before going altitude, and in spite of this, was able to improve dramatically in the race. What really changed is the MCV (globular volume), showing not reaction to the altitude, but ADAPTATION (this is the same situation we find with Kenyans and Ethiopians, always training in altitude).

I challenge everybody to find some suspicion in Ding Changqin's values.

Since you continue to lie about the athletes I coached and doping, I hope this can be the final clarification, and you stop to write falsities without any foundation and evidence.