Which world record is doped for sure?

cotton shirt wrote:

killermike said: "Rights" such as right to a fair trial or the right to speak freely only refer to a citizen's interaction with the government, not society at large.

why would you presume that the government is not part of society?

"the government" is merely that part of our society that we have entrusted with certain administrative tasks. they are not some "other," they are society, too.

in addition, your post illogically posits that we only have freedom of speech when speaking to the government, but not when speaking to each other. I don't think you've thought this through very carefully.

cheers.

...what even is this word soup? You're conflating many different ideas and you're so far off base that it's hard to know where to even start.

I like innocent until proven guilty wrote:

Congrats on your half time wrote:

Threadjack here. Congrats on your half. Do you know of any database or list that has the top 100 or 200 U.S. half times in a given year for our age group? (I'm assuming you're in the U.S.; the UK has an easily-searchable list.)

Thanks. I don’t know of any such database. I would love to know if there was one. It would be awesome to see what the top age group competitors are doing.[/quote]

For what it's worth, I tried a while back to put together a list of all U.S. half times in 2017 below 1:30 by runners aged 55+. I took usarunning's list of the largest 2016 halfs, found every such time in those races, looked up those runners in Athlinks, looked up every other half they ran that year, found some new runners in those races, looked them up in Athlinks, checked every other half they ran that year, etc. Also checked some other races I had heard were fast, plus all the RnR, Disney, & Divas races. I wound up with races with over a million finishers. Usually there are 1.8-1.9 million in a year (usarunning didn't give a total for 2017), so I missed some, but I expect I got nearly all of the fastest runners.

Anyway, I found 22 runners age 55+ (2 of whom were 60+) under 1:22 that year and another 15 (4 were 60+) between 1:22 and 1:23. The fastest time was 1:15:20, and 13 were under 1:20. One person who posts as dhaaga on the 50+ thread was around your time that year, so he may have more info. Also,

has lots of information on the USATF masters championship road and xc races at various distances; that blog includes many of the top names I found.

"for sure" is a pretty high standard of certainty -- I'm not sure it is possible to convince anyone who doesn't already share your faith. I'm a little puzzled -- between you and your coach -- who is the master and who is the student?

Xoman wrote:

I'm having a hard time convincing my coach, who is anti-doping but always states that we shouldn't distrust all great performances. He also says that usually people use doping who aren't at the very top, because they wanna get there or have financial issues.

For example he thinks that El G, Radcliffe, Bekele etc are all legit. Is there any way I can prove him wrong and change his opinion? Apart from very few performances like the Chinese 3k or the women 400/800 he thinks that unless someone is caught with proof we can't claim that doping was used which seems retarded, considering that most doping cases only got discovered by house raids and tests are rather useless.

Every last one ................................... and any time near them .

without needing to mention obvious assumptions , of correct timing and measure , human and so on .

the nature of beast , this earthly realm that some things cant prove . but common sense , logic shows way .

1.

beyond the obvious now ,

off course their is " levels of doping " and the various unwritten rules and methods available at any time .

so the doping that happened in austria recently is nothing compared to what others are doing and not being called out.

older aerobic doping methods versus more modern methods of NIKE with untested / undetectable epo .

if american then the behaviour of NOP should do nothing but anger , end goal seems to be no americans in project

beamon is well documented as being doped with whatever steroid could get hands on at time ,

and maybe due to amount of hormones lead to damage that resulted in never being same after .

rudisha is again beyond doped to gills with his coach as perfect cover . gw50 1516 and more .

pole vault record ,more of the same , the french man was allowed to up doping for that short time period

with goal to break record and previous record holder budka had to sit their and enjoy it with maybe award of career pushed further down line .

2.

Who is not doped at moment with the growing use of THE SPEED PEPTIDE , IGF-1 LR3 in track .

this is where politics and control and power of wada and iaaf show hand , control all including doping narrative .

made nations like south africa , qatar recent performances , largely on dope .

assume the 1500m record will go this summer with LEVELS of doping of some athletes in this event

as able to dope aerobically far beyond others with the speed offered by peptide mentioned above .

and no fear of ever testing positive , a fix / a set up , choosen not made if cant get hands on this dope then no chance.

And who would of said that record would of ever gone close in a so called clean era . what nonsense .

saw what certain lanky kenyan could manage by similar means although had to duck and dive with epo .

and that bouncy monaco track is technological doping , end of story

Another point showing the increase in IGF -1 LR3 use ,

lets look at nations where some athletes who have made a career and aided in top performances .

not touching team sports in europe or america as similarly making and breaking teams there.

where money and connections dominate doping near whole teams . golden gate etc

maybe get on that part of internet ( .onion ) with some bitcoin and find a legitimate supplier .

this is what this ped is doing for said athletes without the levels of doping of other nations

that can add in hormones to much greater extent .

1.

the crazy dutch and one female sprinter .

now lets look at dutch in other similar sports of recent time

starting to dominate track cycling again

and

just broke many records in speed skating and previous records were chronically highly doped .

2.

norwegians are dominating biathlon again after the french athlete dominated for so long by same means

just being out doped now .

2020JXC wrote:

El Guerrouj is clean and legit.

However I have serious doubts that Flo Jo and the 800m Women's records are clean.

The problem with this statement is that you have completely conflicting logic on display with both your sentences.

You have no idea or not if El G is clean and legit - you really don't. Why do you think El G is clean? Because you also ran the mile/5k? Because you grew up in this era with him as the best guy in the sport?

What fact we do know is that "testing positive" is really a matter of being privy to the knowledge of it happening so for all we know he may have tested positive many times with it being covered up (Lance Armstrong) or have been taking things completely undetectable at the time (EPO/CERA, HGH etc). Let's be super clear here - public awareness of a failed drugs test means absolutely nothing in reality. Let's stop thinking that we as fans mean anything at all.

The doubts you have about FloJo/Jarmila Kratochvílová are completely understandable but the same way you got to this conclusion can easily be applied to El G, Bolt, Bekele etc etc

For the record since you mentioned him - was Hichem El Guerrojou clean? I would be flabbergasted if he was.

Anyone who thinks Bolt was clean needs to have their head checked.

Consider an accused child molester. To lock that person up, I agree, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (let's say 95% certain). If that same person is going to baby sit my kids, then even a 1% chance that he is a child molester is too much.

Would you let an accused but not convicted child molester watch your kids?

Heck, would you let an acquitted child molester watch your kids? I sure as hell would not.

PhDoping wrote:

There exists documented evidence of Kratochvilova's 800m. Those are 100%.

Please give your source. Thanks.

For those who think world records are clean, why would any top athlete not dope if they believed it would improve their performances? The chances of being caught are low, the rewards of success are high and you would know that your fellow competitors could also be doping. It may sound cynical, but in that world competing 'clean' is for amateurs and losers.

Someone did an article once (I thought it was Fivethirtyeight but I don't see it there) that showed record outliers in terms of either longevity or strength of performance. Several people in this thread have mentioned this approach already--and it obviously doesn't "prove" anything but it's a good enough start.

For an obvious example : The men's 1500/mile records are getting pretty old, but then again it feels like the event has become much more tactical in outlook (see Rio), but I'd don't know if that's statistically true or how long it would take to get a sense of that. We do know that there was one guy, Kiprop, capable of getting close to record speed and he's ran into some trouble recently...