NY Times says running is “overwhelmingly white.”

xoxoxoxo wrote:

Well, running as a hobby IS still overwhelmingly white. Why are some people here so mad about that statement? She's pointing out something while stating that the sport is becoming more democratized now since we see all sorts of runners. For the white people getting defensive about this statement, why? I doubt she's stating "perfect" as in fewer whites or more blacks, she's using perfect in the sense that there's less barriers to this hobby than ever before so that it attracts everyone. I see "democratizing" here to mean more equal access (for instance, the internet has democratized information more than ever) to everyone.

She's not making this a big in-depth article and maybe that's the problem. I mean, do we really doubt there are barriers (however low in comparison to other sports) to running?

For running:

-You need time (what if you don't have a set work schedule? How many regular runners are regular because of their predictable 9-5 jobs?)

-You need to buy sneakers often (as a new runner, I'm surprised at how expensive sneakers are!)

-If you want to race, you have to enter and trek to said race (this takes planning, maybe even spending on hotels and transportation)

-You have a (safe?) place to run (there's also a lack of green space or running trails in many cities)

-it probably helps/is encouraging if you know someone else who runs as well

I'm sure there are other factors I'm forgetting but let's get real people.

KudzuRunner wrote:

just a matter of preference wrote:

"That is not to say that running is perfect. At the recreational level, it’s still overwhelmingly white."

Why is being overwhelmingly white an imperfection? I could understand this argument if this was a result of discrimination of some kind, but discrimination really isn't a possible cause of running being "overwhelmingly white." Literally anyone can walk out their front door and go for a run. That some people choose to run while others do not is just a matter of preference, and is not inherently good or bad.

I completely agree. It's a patronizing statement. Believe it or not, black people do make choices about which sports to participate in. In America, many make the choice, for a range of reasons, to pursue football and basketball, because they hope for a payoff. It's not as thought there's a huge front-end startup cost. Running is like soccer or basketball: it's an intrinsically low-cost, intrinsically democratic sport.

By "running," of course, the NYT reporter means "distance running." At the recreational level, at least in JHS, HS, and college, the sprints are overwhelmingly black, not white.

But yes: to call (distance) running in America "imperfect," in effect, because a lot of white people like it and black people by and large choose not to participate in it is just kooky.

xoxoxoxo wrote:

Well, running as a hobby IS still overwhelmingly white. Why are some people here so mad about that statement? She's pointing out something while stating that the sport is becoming more democratized now since we see all sorts of runners. For the white people getting defensive about this statement, why? I doubt she's stating "perfect" as in fewer whites or more blacks, she's using perfect in the sense that there's less barriers to this hobby than ever before so that it attracts everyone. I see "democratizing" here to mean more equal access (for instance, the internet has democratized information more than ever) to everyone.

She's not making this a big in-depth article and maybe that's the problem. I mean, do we really doubt there are barriers (however low in comparison to other sports) to running?

For running:

-You need time (what if you don't have a set work schedule? How many regular runners are regular because of their predictable 9-5 jobs?)

-You need to buy sneakers often (as a new runner, I'm surprised at how expensive sneakers are!)

-If you want to race, you have to enter and trek to said race (this takes planning, maybe even spending on hotels and transportation)

-You have a (safe?) place to run (there's also a lack of green space or running trails in many cities)

-it probably helps/is encouraging if you know someone else who runs as well

I'm sure there are other factors I'm forgetting but let's get real people.

breit leit wrote:

GD wrote:

___________________________________

Yes, this is why people are upset. There is an implicit argument that running should be "democratized" while pushing a narrow view of what democracy means--in this case equality of outcome versus equality of opportunity. More accurately, inequality of outcome is uncritically presented as inequality of opportunity, which may or may not be the case. People have strong disagreements about whether successful democracy means having an equal shot or whether it means having equal outcomes.

We can make fun of the strong reaction, the cherry-picking of the sentence about race, etc., but I think you're wrong to dismiss the reactions on this thread (whether they're sincere or not is a different question) as overreactions--except for maybe the anti-Semitic conspiracy theories and the usual LRC message board racism. This is a microcosm of larger political debates happening in this country.

I don't think that I'm wrong to dismiss the reactions as overreactions. An author makes an aside that recreational running doesn't seem to garner the interests of all groups and it created a thread that devolved into posts about Obama's Chicago crime policies and Israeli soldiers, among other things. I find that very much to be an overreaction to the quote I posted.

low expectations wrote:

xoxoxoxo wrote:

Well, running as a hobby IS still overwhelmingly white. Why are some people here so mad about that statement? She's pointing out something while stating that the sport is becoming more democratized now since we see all sorts of runners. For the white people getting defensive about this statement, why? I doubt she's stating "perfect" as in fewer whites or more blacks, she's using perfect in the sense that there's less barriers to this hobby than ever before so that it attracts everyone. I see "democratizing" here to mean more equal access (for instance, the internet has democratized information more than ever) to everyone.

She's not making this a big in-depth article and maybe that's the problem. I mean, do we really doubt there are barriers (however low in comparison to other sports) to running?

For running:

-You need time (what if you don't have a set work schedule? How many regular runners are regular because of their predictable 9-5 jobs?)

-You need to buy sneakers often (as a new runner, I'm surprised at how expensive sneakers are!)

-If you want to race, you have to enter and trek to said race (this takes planning, maybe even spending on hotels and transportation)

-You have a (safe?) place to run (there's also a lack of green space or running trails in many cities)

-it probably helps/is encouraging if you know someone else who runs as well

I'm sure there are other factors I'm forgetting but let's get real people.

You are the exact definition of the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

You really think black people are so helpless that they can't buy some running shoes (instead of other shoes) and run in them. Hint; if you are poor, the shoes you wear all day can be running shoes. Also, it's called the clearance rack. I haven't paid full price for a pair of running shoes in I don't know how long.

You really think black people can't run because they don't have access to "green space?" Honestly, what are you talking about? Road running is running on the road, and cross country running is running not on the road. You can run wherever you want.

You think you have to travel to run in road races? There are more road races available today in every town in America than there have ever been.

You think you need a consistent work schedule to run? I think having a variable work schedule is more conducive to training. You have more flexibility to run whenever the weather permits, etc.

Honestly, if I was black I would think you were the biggest condescending bigot I ever met. Poor people, and black and brown people are not as stupid and helpless as you think they are.

Now, there is one way in which running has become less "democratized," and that is the rise in entry fees because of all the hobby joggers like the NYTs blogger being willing to spend $50 on a 5k so she can get her finisher medal, and race photos, and whatever other nonsense race organizers put in the mix.

fghfghdfghdfgh wrote:

low expectations wrote:

You are the exact definition of the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

You really think black people are so helpless that they can't buy some running shoes (instead of other shoes) and run in them. Hint; if you are poor, the shoes you wear all day can be running shoes. Also, it's called the clearance rack. I haven't paid full price for a pair of running shoes in I don't know how long.

You really think black people can't run because they don't have access to "green space?" Honestly, what are you talking about? Road running is running on the road, and cross country running is running not on the road. You can run wherever you want.

You think you have to travel to run in road races? There are more road races available today in every town in America than there have ever been.

You think you need a consistent work schedule to run? I think having a variable work schedule is more conducive to training. You have more flexibility to run whenever the weather permits, etc.

Honestly, if I was black I would think you were the biggest condescending bigot I ever met. Poor people, and black and brown people are not as stupid and helpless as you think they are.

Now, there is one way in which running has become less "democratized," and that is the rise in entry fees because of all the hobby joggers like the NYTs blogger being willing to spend $50 on a 5k so she can get her finisher medal, and race photos, and whatever other nonsense race organizers put in the mix.

"Poor people, and black and brown people are not as stupid and helpless as you think they are. "

Actually they are, but their stupidity and helplessness isn't the fault of white people. Casually bigoted liberals blame every side effect of low intelligence on "white privilege" and "the patriarchy", and "colonialism".

Like, the fact that blacks are the most obese people is blamed on systemic white racism, because blacks don't earn a lot of money. But most people with EBT/Food Stamp cards would rather spend it on Sprite and Mountain Dew and Doritos than on rice, beans, meat, and vegetables.

Black obesity is a function of low intelligence, not poverty. Cooking rice and beans and chicken with a salad requires a degree of intelligence and conceptual thinking about actions and consequences that most people on food stamps (black and white) simply don't have.

People who run long distance as a hobby are capable of abstract thinking, like being concerned about their long-term cardiovascular health.

Go into a supermarket on the first of the month. The grocery carts with the most junk food will almost always belong to people who pull out an EBT card.

Money has nothing to do with low rates of black runners, or high rates of obese black people.

fghfghdfghdfgh wrote:

low expectations wrote:

You are the exact definition of the phrase "the soft bigotry of low expectations."

You really think black people are so helpless that they can't buy some running shoes (instead of other shoes) and run in them. Hint; if you are poor, the shoes you wear all day can be running shoes. Also, it's called the clearance rack. I haven't paid full price for a pair of running shoes in I don't know how long.

You really think black people can't run because they don't have access to "green space?" Honestly, what are you talking about? Road running is running on the road, and cross country running is running not on the road. You can run wherever you want.

You think you have to travel to run in road races? There are more road races available today in every town in America than there have ever been.

You think you need a consistent work schedule to run? I think having a variable work schedule is more conducive to training. You have more flexibility to run whenever the weather permits, etc.

Honestly, if I was black I would think you were the biggest condescending bigot I ever met. Poor people, and black and brown people are not as stupid and helpless as you think they are.

Now, there is one way in which running has become less "democratized," and that is the rise in entry fees because of all the hobby joggers like the NYTs blogger being willing to spend $50 on a 5k so she can get her finisher medal, and race photos, and whatever other nonsense race organizers put in the mix.

"Poor people, and black and brown people are not as stupid and helpless as you think they are. "

Actually they are, but their stupidity and helplessness isn't the fault of white people. Casually bigoted liberals blame every side effect of low intelligence on "white privilege" and "the patriarchy", and "colonialism".

Like, the fact that blacks are the most obese people is blamed on systemic white racism, because blacks don't earn a lot of money. But most people with EBT/Food Stamp cards would rather spend it on Sprite and Mountain Dew and Doritos than on rice, beans, meat, and vegetables.

Black obesity is a function of low intelligence, not poverty. Cooking rice and beans and chicken with a salad requires a degree of intelligence and conceptual thinking about actions and consequences that most people on food stamps (black and white) simply don't have.

People who run long distance as a hobby are capable of abstract thinking, like being concerned about their long-term cardiovascular health.

Go into a supermarket on the first of the month. The grocery carts with the most junk food will almost always belong to people who pull out an EBT card.

Money has nothing to do with low rates of black runners, or high rates of obese black people.

isn't that nice wrote:

fghfghdfghdfgh wrote:

"Poor people, and black and brown people are not as stupid and helpless as you think they are. "

Actually they are, but their stupidity and helplessness isn't the fault of white people. Casually bigoted liberals blame every side effect of low intelligence on "white privilege" and "the patriarchy", and "colonialism".

Like, the fact that blacks are the most obese people is blamed on systemic white racism, because blacks don't earn a lot of money. But most people with EBT/Food Stamp cards would rather spend it on Sprite and Mountain Dew and Doritos than on rice, beans, meat, and vegetables.

Black obesity is a function of low intelligence, not poverty. Cooking rice and beans and chicken with a salad requires a degree of intelligence and conceptual thinking about actions and consequences that most people on food stamps (black and white) simply don't have.

People who run long distance as a hobby are capable of abstract thinking, like being concerned about their long-term cardiovascular health.

Go into a supermarket on the first of the month. The grocery carts with the most junk food will almost always belong to people who pull out an EBT card.

Money has nothing to do with low rates of black runners, or high rates of obese black people.

always refreshing when LRC posters quite trying to hide behind a facade of "No, really...I'm not racist," and just jump in with both feet and embrace it. Let me guess...a #M A G A Trumper?

fghfghdfghdfgh wrote:

"Poor people, and black and brown people are not as stupid and helpless as you think they are. "

Actually they are, but their stupidity and helplessness isn't the fault of white people. Casually bigoted liberals blame every side effect of low intelligence on "white privilege" and "the patriarchy", and "colonialism".

Like, the fact that blacks are the most obese people is blamed on systemic white racism, because blacks don't earn a lot of money. But most people with EBT/Food Stamp cards would rather spend it on Sprite and Mountain Dew and Doritos than on rice, beans, meat, and vegetables.

Black obesity is a function of low intelligence, not poverty. Cooking rice and beans and chicken with a salad requires a degree of intelligence and conceptual thinking about actions and consequences that most people on food stamps (black and white) simply don't have.

People who run long distance as a hobby are capable of abstract thinking, like being concerned about their long-term cardiovascular health.

Go into a supermarket on the first of the month. The grocery carts with the most junk food will almost always belong to people who pull out an EBT card.

Money has nothing to do with low rates of black runners, or high rates of obese black people.