Whoa, Nick Symmonds' training is working. Ran an 11.48 unofficial

Bad Wigins wrote:

others competent at video analysis can confirm that Nick and his friend start moving at 2:56.19 of this 30fps video. Even generously timing from when Nick's toe first clearly crosses the line at frame 23, his torso crosses the finish line at 3:08.19 - not at 3:08.17 where the timer stops at the moment his left foot strikes at least 1 meter from the line (I won't get into how late it started). This is, generously, 11 seconds and 26 frames (11.87) and really it's 12.00 or 12:03.

Not knowing how Freelap works I won't speculate on how it erred. Symmonds' torso does get from the yellow cone to the finish in just under 11.50.

This is more reasonable. Add in RT and take away the wind, and you're in mid-12 territory, which is reasonable.

I wish more distance guys would try the 100m. Heck, I gave my 5k treadmill times, and told you guys I struggled to get under 20 minutes, and got down to something like 18:30 after losing water weight from the flu or something. Pathetic, right? But less pathetic than you distance guys going off about distance 100 times without ever having tried it--and it's a whole lot less pain for you to go 100m than it is for me to go hard for 5k.

But pleeeeease don't injure yourself trying. More than anything, I hope that Symmonds stays healthy to put up the best 100m time that he can.

I made a video on a program i use but i can't see where he crosses the line because of the clock being in the way. What I would say about the difference between video time and freelap time is that he lost a tone of time in his setup that wouldn't show up in the freelap time. The problem with starting a 100m race like a 800m where you tip toe to the line and try and do a static start is that there is a lot of movement before there is any forward momentum. The clock won't start on the freelap until he moves forward 20cm. It takes him about .6 secs when i break it down by frame until he can create an angle with his legs he can push from. He had already reacted but he really wasn't setup to race and doesn't actually move forward.

With blocks if you use them properly you are loaded at the proper angles and all the movement is up the track. There is no backward momentum and there is no rolling forward until your shin is pointing forward, you are already in that position. A good coach could improve his start in 10 mins if he was there at the track with him that day. It would also help him push better the first 3 steps and he probably would run much faster if he made that improvement. If you compare his start to the other guys you can see how badly he is setup because his shin is vertical(maybe slightly angled the wrong direction) when he reacts so he can't actually push himself forward. The other guy is lower at the start and his shin is angled forward so he can push into the track and propel himself forward right away.

Most all comers meets have automatic timing, sometimes even USATF officials. Find yourself some and you’ll find out what you can do. Races are broken down into age groups. Try running with the 50-60 year old group at first.

Nick needs to set up Freelap to record his 10m flying time. Set the 4 cones 10m apart anywhere he wants where he thinks he will run fastest and get times for the 10m segments. Take a video of that then get his butt down to some real meets ‘cause we still wont believe him.

10m Specialist wrote:

I made a video on a program i use but i can't see where he crosses the line because of the clock being in the way.

right, but the last footstrike before that is clearly visible and his torso is presumably more or less directly above his foot. A 12 second 100 is roughly 8 meters per second, so that last 1 (+) meter further must have taken at least .125 seconds. I added only 2 frames (.07 seconds at 30fps) to estimate where he would have crossed, but in all likelihood it was three or four frames.

The video also clearly shows he stopped the clock early and started it VERY late. If he mans up and admits this, I won't elaborate.

I can't really be bothered to keep up with his latest scheme. What happened to Everest? Is that still on the table?

First person to talk about attempting Everest then run an unofficial 11.48 and have a letsrun thread about it? Success!

Its irrelevant the free lap time is legit for how he set it up. You can't really determine when to start to clock based on the camera angle and how the free lap system works. You would need a camera pointed directly at the start to figure out when then chip on his waist got 80 cm from the transmitter and then you wouldn't have a camera angle at the finish. Its only really important for tracking progress over time. If he got the free lap touch pad the system would be more in line with an actual fat time minus reaction time. If they used a normal starters pistol you could find the frame the gun fired and then when he moved to get reaction time. The argument is silly for anyone who has used the timing system over time. The video was more about his race and he just happened to be wearing the chip to track progress. Anyone who has actually used the system over time would actually understand what the times mean.

Bad Wigins wrote:

I wonder if he can run a sub 2 800 right now? I bet he can't.

50/50 chance. I've tried running sub 2 again given a 13 year lag, having never run slower than 1:57 (had a cold that day) and it just blows away the achilles each time. Certain events are a young man's game, best he not try.

Monkeyman wrote:

I can't really be bothered to keep up with his latest scheme. What happened to Everest? Is that still on the table?

First person to talk about attempting Everest then run an unofficial 11.48 and have a letsrun thread about it? Success!

I think so but he has to wait a while for setting up purposes (right time of the year, training, gear, travel etc). I dont remember exactly what he said but he claims he still plans on doing it

10m Specialist wrote:

You can't really determine when to start to clock based on the camera angle and how the free lap system works.

The angle is irrelevant. They were moving from their set position at frame 19, so that's when they started. You don't move until after the gun goes off.

By frame 23 Symmonds was no longer behind the line; he'd have been well ahead of it if his start were better.

You would need a camera pointed directly at the start to figure out when then chip on his waist got 80 cm from the transmitter

I don't really care how freelap works, though if it's activated at 80cm, and the chip is on your waist, and you're tall enough that your waist is at least 80cm high, then it won't start until you're directly over the sensor, if at all. The timing of digital video doesn't err by much. Symmonds' own video shows he ran a 12 flat, plus or minus maybe a tenth.

I won't bother arguing further, as I know there are other video-competent posters from the Bolt 40 yard dash thread who can take it from here. The video evidence is indisputable. I'm more interested in what Symmonds says.

Its 80 cm's horizontally at waist level. If I start with it above my head and lower it will start at shoulder height. If i put it around my waist and walk towards it it will start 80cm from transmitter. In my video they are stationary at 2.21, moving at 2.23 seconds. He could cross the line anywhere from 13.94 to 14.14. So 11.73-11.93 plus reaction time. If I ran 11.48 with the free lap using that method I would definitely be in the 11.75-11.8 from blocks at a meet based on history. He has a lot to clean up in his start though to get his momentum going forward as soon as he reacts. Racing someone with that style of start makes it way harder to get comfortable at the start.

He should be able to do around 10.45 based on his body weight and previous training. Combined with the fact that he's not even old.

He retired early.

The human body hits its peak in upper 30s to low 40s for speed.

He just needs to start lifting more to get down that low.

Guys, this isn't exactly the Zapruder film. Maybe get a life people.

Thanks.

Bwahahahahahahahaha !!!!!!!!!

10.10 if he lifts better and uses blocks. :)

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Like I said, I wish you all the luck in the world, yours is a great effort, and sub-11 is a great goal. Beats me why more people don’t try the 100m.

Because most people would have more success at distance. It is a lot more rewarding to bring your 5k time down from 26 minutes to sub 17 over a few years than it is to bring your 16.0 FAT down to 13.9 FAT with a few years of training, because for the average person, that is how it would fare.

good wigins, no such thing wrote:

Guys, this isn't exactly the Zapruder film. Maybe get a life people.

Thanks.

Good morning Nick. We willl “get a life” when you do. Selling crappy gum and making YouTube videos to impress 20 year olds is not a life. Risking your life climbing mountains trying to be macho is foolish.

Sprinting is mor badass but you gotta be cut from a certain clot wrote:

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Like I said, I wish you all the luck in the world, yours is a great effort, and sub-11 is a great goal. Beats me why more people don’t try the 100m.

Because most people would have more success at distance. It is a lot more rewarding to bring your 5k time down from 26 minutes to sub 17 over a few years than it is to bring your 16.0 FAT down to 13.9 FAT with a few years of training, because for the average person, that is how it would fare.

Yeah I get that, I was thinking that people might do it just out of curiosity.

I can live with the fact that distance runners wouldn’t care, but they sure seem to care about flying 100’s, and sure seem eager to jump on the bandwagon that any great distance runner can go 10.5 for 100m, so they seem to think it’s somehow important.

Voice, the only thing I know about Symmonds is that he was a great 800m runner, and that he is now trying his hand at the 100 for whatever reason.

And as far as track is concerned, that’s great, IMO. I think the 100m should be the “universal event”, and that it would make great entertainment to see all sorts of 100m, or 4x100m, charity or promotional races. Doesn’t take long, easy to marshal competitors, no repetitive strain injuries, every athlete can do it.

Of course that’s me picking my favorite race, but what the heck. Symmonds’ life is his own, to live as he sees fit, more or less. I’m only interested in his running. Funny that I didn’t catch wind of his marathon, but I haven’t really been paying attention, been too busy until just recently.

Sprintgeezer has me wanting to go see what I can do officially. I bet I can't break 17 or even 40 for 200.