Did you hear about the craziness at Mountain West Champs? Air Force forgot to enter their entire squad of distance runners

New
  • rojo
    cofounder
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 11:28am CST
    Forum Index
    This story is going to result in every college coach being unable to sleep for the next 25 years. When I started college coaching, I remember the other coaches obsessing over the entries. It got me pretty paranoid about things and I was always waking up at night wondering if we screwed up.

    I do remember asking one day, "But if we screwed them up, they'd let us change them, right?" Then being told some story about how a coach in the 80s didn't enter the relays once assuming that was a given and they weren't allowed to run.

    Well, the ultimate horror occurred this past week at the Mountain West coach. Air Force didn't enter their entire distance squad - men and women. I can only imagine the entry deadline was different than in years past.

    In the end, they ended up letting the athletes compete as they would have - no sense in punishing the athletes - but their points didn't count in the team score. Air Force lost the team title on the men's side as a result.

    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/03/air-force-forgot-to-enter-its-distance-runners-for-mountain-west-conference-meet-colorado-state-won-team-title-as-a-result/
  • Sally Vix
    registered
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 11:32am CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    rojo wrote:

    This story is going to give result in every college coach being unable to sleep for the next 25 years. When I started college coaching, I remember the other coaches obsessing over the entries. It got me pretty paranoid about things and I was always waking up at night wondering if we screwed up.

    I do remember asking one day, "But if we screwed them up, they'd let us change them, right?" Then being told some story about how a coach in the 80s didn't enter the relays once assuming that was a given and they weren't allowed to run.

    Well, the ultimate horror occurred this past week at the Mountain West coach. Air Force didn't enter their entire distance squad - men and women. I can only imagine the entry deadline was different than in years past.

    In the end, they ended up letting the athletes compete as they would have - no sense in punishing the athletes - but their points didn't count in the team score. Air Force lost the team title on the men's side as a result.

    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/03/air-force-forgot-to-enter-its-distance-runners-for-mountain-west-conference-meet-colorado-state-won-team-title-as-a-result/


    Seems like it was a good decision on the meet organizers. Nice they allowed the athletes to compete but to allow their scores to affect the overall scoring would not have been fair to the other teams.
  • theJeff
    registered
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 11:35am CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    my biggest fear as a coach
  • rojo
    cofounder
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:13pm CST
    re: Sally Vix
    Forum Index
    Sally Vix wrote:

    Seems like it was a good decision on the meet organizers. Nice they allowed the athletes to compete but to allow their scores to affect the overall scoring would not have been fair to the other teams.


    Am i crazy to think wouldn't it be ok to just let them enter later and pay some sort of huge ass fine?

    I mean I know you need deadlines but I'm not sure how I would feel if I was Colorado state. I mean we can all re-score the meet and see what the score would have been.

    Or is it a decent solution? This still scares me and I haven't coached in college in like 6 or 7 years.
  • justthefacts
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:20pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    When entries were coming in wouldn't someone oversee that and notice? A call to the Head Coach and a late fee would have resolved this issue and made it a non-issue.

    I once had to pay $1000 fine to the NCAA for failing to declare an athlete, but did receive a call from the seeding committee as soon as declarations were over, and the athlete was allowed to compete and score. I never made that mistake again. Isn't that what cell phones are for?? Seems to me Mountain West didn't think this through very well.
  • westsouthrunner
    registered
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:23pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    rojo wrote:

    This story is going to result in every college coach being unable to sleep for the next 25 years. When I started college coaching, I remember the other coaches obsessing over the entries. It got me pretty paranoid about things and I was always waking up at night wondering if we screwed up.

    I do remember asking one day, "But if we screwed them up, they'd let us change them, right?" Then being told some story about how a coach in the 80s didn't enter the relays once assuming that was a given and they weren't allowed to run.

    Well, the ultimate horror occurred this past week at the Mountain West coach. Air Force didn't enter their entire distance squad - men and women. I can only imagine the entry deadline was different than in years past.

    In the end, they ended up letting the athletes compete as they would have - no sense in punishing the athletes - but their points didn't count in the team score. Air Force lost the team title on the men's side as a result.

    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/03/air-force-forgot-to-enter-its-distance-runners-for-mountain-west-conference-meet-colorado-state-won-team-title-as-a-result/


    This happened to a team my sophomore year at the DII South regionals in xc
  • bob here
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:23pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    rojo wrote:

    Sally Vix wrote:

    Seems like it was a good decision on the meet organizers. Nice they allowed the athletes to compete but to allow their scores to affect the overall scoring would not have been fair to the other teams.


    Am i crazy to think wouldn't it be ok to just let them enter later and pay some sort of huge ass fine?

    I mean I know you need deadlines but I'm not sure how I would feel if I was Colorado state. I mean we can all re-score the meet and see what the score would have been.

    Or is it a decent solution? This still scares me and I haven't coached in college in like 6 or 7 years.


    I'd agree you'd think they could do something to overcome the honest error. But when that happens the dishonesty starts and it's all downhill from there.
  • Free Advice
    registered
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:26pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    Let me get this straight. They let them compete, but not score, and the points they would've scored weren't awarded to anybody. It was probably more hassle doing it that way than simply officially entering them in the meet.

    Common sense did not prevail.

    I certainly hope that a conference administrator overrides that decision and resorts the meet. If not, what a hollow victory for Colorado State.
  • Meat Manager
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:32pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    1. Stupid mistake by the distance coach

    2. Stupid mistake by the head coach

    3. Ridiculous that the runners were unable to score even if the runners weren’t entered. It’s simple for meet management/timers to add entries.

    4. This would never happen in football/basketball or any other college sport
  • UnsureSherlock
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:35pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    AF Head Coach Lindeman has been a "superlative" coach for many years for the academy, and Ryan Cole, the distance coach, is arguably one of the "very very best" distance coaches in the nation! However, these type strange unfortunate incidents do occur, though rarely.
    There may even be extenuating circumstances, or just a nightmarish classic chain of bureaucratic administrative deadline paperwork oversights by several coaches. (or was it clever sabotage from within to make someone look bad? Ha! Though that scenario is the most fun, it is most probably the least likely!)
    Though this strange affair occurred, I salute Ralph Lindeman and Ryan Cole as two of the best coaches in the nation!!!!!!!!
  • sillyman
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 12:43pm CST
    re: UnsureSherlock
    Forum Index
    UnsureSherlock wrote:

    AF Head Coach Lindeman has been a "superlative" coach for many years for the academy, and Ryan Cole, the distance coach, is arguably one of the "very very best" distance coaches in the nation! However, these type strange unfortunate incidents do occur, though rarely.
    There may even be extenuating circumstances, or just a nightmarish classic chain of bureaucratic administrative deadline paperwork oversights by several coaches. (or was it clever sabotage from within to make someone look bad? Ha! Though that scenario is the most fun, it is most probably the least likely!)
    Though this strange affair occurred, I salute Ralph Lindeman and Ryan Cole as two of the best coaches in the nation!!!!!!!!


    As long as they don't have to do any administrative duties. :-)
  • Hypocritical
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 1:04pm CST
    re: sillyman
    Forum Index
    I k ow Ralph well enough and am pretty positive Ralph would’ve pushed for those kids to not even be allowed to compete if it was another University.

    He is a “rules” guy for sure.
  • Millenialolz
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 1:21pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    rojo wrote:

    I do remember asking one day, "But if we screwed them up, they'd let us change them, right?"

    "Daddy, get out your checkbook and talk to those people saying mean things about your perfect little boy!"
  • Cgty
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 1:24pm CST
    re: Sally Vix
    Forum Index


    Seems like it was a good decision on the meet organizers. Nice they allowed the athletes to compete but to allow their scores to affect the overall scoring would not have been fair to the other teams.


    Disagree.

    Mistake should have been obvious to conference reps. An monetary fine for late entry is best solution. Maybe you give AF runners outside lane start position.

    Coaches won't purposefully game system through late or swapped entries. Running your best athletes in their best events is the only way to succeed. There are no (successful) tactics in T&F.

    I'm all for enforcing bib and check-in procedures to make meet run smoothly, but administrative stuff that happens days in advance should not effect competitive result.
  • hart crane
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 1:28pm CST
    re: Cgty
    Forum Index
    Is jamin the coach there?
  • John McDonnell's Ghostly Legacy
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 1:54pm CST
    re: Cgty
    Forum Index
    Cgty wrote:

    There are no (successful) tactics in T&F.



    There aren't.....?!

    Who knew my 42 titles were just pure luck of the draw....
  • fsdfsdfsdf
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 2:10pm CST
    re: justthefacts
    Forum Index
    justthefacts wrote:

    When entries were coming in wouldn't someone oversee that and notice? A call to the Head Coach and a late fee would have resolved this issue and made it a non-issue.

    I once had to pay $1000 fine to the NCAA for failing to declare an athlete, but did receive a call from the seeding committee as soon as declarations were over, and the athlete was allowed to compete and score. I never made that mistake again. Isn't that what cell phones are for?? Seems to me Mountain West didn't think this through very well.


    Lol it's the mountain west's fault to make sure everyone enters their athletes correctly? Come on...
  • Loser officials
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 2:14pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    Just goes to show majority of race directors are piss ant never beens. Conference championships are a THREE time a year event with every team ALWAYS showing up.

    Any logical piss ant would have noticed AF lacking half a track squad and should have given the courtesy of a “hey, I noticed something odd about your entries,” to the AF coach.

    Enough.
  • medoc50
    registered
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 2:45pm CST
    re: rojo
    Forum Index
    USAFA sprinter Terrell Bradford was named outstanding male athlete of the MW meet . He was the runner up in both the 60 and the 200. After receiving the award, he handed the award to distance runner, Jacob Bilvado. Bilvado won the 5000 and was runner up in the 3000. Because the distance runners points did not count, Jacob was not in the running for the award. Bradford was a class act with honor and integrity to not accept an award that he knew should have gone to someone else!
  • Hard hasses
    1 year ago 03/01/2019 2:50pm CST
    re: medoc50
    Forum Index
    Hanson’s missed the deadline for Payton Jordan one year and were told to go pound sand :)