I say bring back Smallpox and Polio.
I say bring back Smallpox and Polio.
BREAKING: anacedotes >>> data in the minds of anti-vax t@rds.
People who ridicule vaccine skeptics tend to put enormous faith in pharmaceutical companies -- the same companies responsible for fake scientific journal articles such as the ones described below.
My view is that early vaccines were an enormous boon to humanity, but nowadays the cumulative effect of dozens of injections in every infant and toddler are poorly understood. As far as I know, the long-term effects of vaccines were never studied in the clinical trials used to obtain FDA approval. Nor were the synergistic effects of combinations of different vaccines. It seems plausible that vaccines have had subtle, negative long-term effects on peoples' immune systems. Unfortunately, this possibility has received little attention from mainstream medical researchers and public health organizations, perhaps due to the enormous power and influence of pharmaceutical corporations.
Normally, the risk of liability constrains companies from engaging in activity that endangers consumers. In the case of vaccines, however, companies that make vaccines are completely immune from such liability, at least in the U.S.
Just call me Mr. Double Negative wrote:
None of the 30 students who contracted whooping cough were not vaccinated.
Why didn't you just say "all 30 students who contracted whooping cough were vaccinated"?
Reads clearer and you look like less of an insufferable fool.
grazley wrote:
Just call me Mr. Double Negative wrote:
None of the 30 students who contracted whooping cough were not vaccinated.
Why didn't you just say "all 30 students who contracted whooping cough were vaccinated"?
Reads clearer and you look like less of an insufferable fool.
Disagree. He looks like an insufferable fool due to his underlying “thought” process. It didn’t really matter what title he gave to the thread.
I don't believe you. How many millions of $ did your family receive? None you say because you couldn't prove it? Guessing most of your family members are crazy antivaccine types who don't want to believe that your family member died from some other extreme lifestyle choice.
Disagreeable Devon wrote:
grazley wrote:
Why didn't you just say "all 30 students who contracted whooping cough were vaccinated"?
Reads clearer and you look like less of an insufferable fool.
Disagree. He looks like an insufferable fool due to his underlying “thought” process. It didn’t really matter what title he gave to the thread.
This thread should be preserved as a text book case of how a thread can start with one observation and then go off on multiple tangents. It also indicates how few people read the original post in its entirety before responding.
The original poster's text was not his own, he was merely quoting the third and fourth paragraphs of the LA CBS article which contained the abominable double negative. To highlight the fact he even included Double Negative in his screen name.
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/02/27/whooping-cough-harvard-westlake/He posted the Hollywood Reported article as the LA CBS article references it. But if you read that report you will see that the word 'vaccination' does not appear in it anywhere. 'Immunization' is used just once but in the context of the school not having reported their figures to the Health Department.
Raddison wrote:
Disagreeable Devon wrote:
Disagree. He looks like an insufferable fool due to his underlying “thought” process. It didn’t really matter what title he gave to the thread.
This thread should be preserved as a text book case of how a thread can start with one observation and then go off on multiple tangents. It also indicates how few people read the original post in its entirety before responding.
The original poster's text was not his own, he was merely quoting the third and fourth paragraphs of the LA CBS article which contained the abominable double negative. To highlight the fact he even included Double Negative in his screen name.
https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/02/27/whooping-cough-harvard-westlake/He posted the Hollywood Reported article as the LA CBS article references it. But if you read that report you will see that the word 'vaccination' does not appear in it anywhere. 'Immunization' is used just once but in the context of the school not having reported their figures to the Health Department.
The intent of the OP was clear. He’s an anti-vaxxer. Are you?
Hmm. Who should I trust on this issue? A large community of highly intelligent people who have spent their entire lives studying and practicing medicine, or a bunch of dorks with zero expertise (like me) who have read a few articles on the internet and trust isolated anecdotes over a giant body of scientific evidence?
HMMMMMMMMM.
Vaccinated and proud wrote:
I don't believe you. How many millions of $ did your family receive? None you say because you couldn't prove it? Guessing most of your family members are crazy antivaccine types who don't want to believe that your family member died from some other extreme lifestyle choice.
Of course you're skeptical - because you're either a CDC or pharma paid troll that conducts surveillance on discussion forums threads that topics vaccinations....no surprises there.
My family member received the Hep B vaccine and developed a negative reaction which later progressed to an autoimmune disease (which was confirmed by her treating rheumatologists). The autoimmune disease progressed to multiple-organ failure and she passed after several months of failed medical treatment! You have no idea of the hell my family has gone through! And the "extreme lifestyle choice" remark? - what a piece of sh*t statement. ? This family always eaten healthy and excercises regularly. And you don't receive "millions of $" from damages because the vaccine manufacturers are immune from liability! So the vaccine cartel gets protection from liability when their precious vaccines cause damage!
https://www.policymed.com/2011/03/supreme-court-rules-in-favor-of-protecting-vaccine-makers-from-state-lawsuits.htmlSo much fraud with vaccines! The CDC is just a propaganda machine for Big Pharma!
https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2018/12/13/cdc-whistleblower-case-to-resurface-in-2019/https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2019/01/08/enter-dr-andrew-zimmerman-on-the-vaccine-autism-connection/Vaccines can be damn destructive and fatal in some cases! The science of the hazards of vaccines is well documented. They can cause immune activation; which can cause autoimmune diseases.
http://vaccinepapers.org/about/colorunner123 wrote:
People who ridicule vaccine skeptics tend to put enormous faith in pharmaceutical companies -- the same companies responsible for fake scientific journal articles such as the ones described below.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-merck-allegations-a-fake-journal-ghostwritten-studies-vioxx-pop-songs-pr-execs-harass-reporters/My view is that early vaccines were an enormous boon to humanity, but nowadays the cumulative effect of dozens of injections in every infant and toddler are poorly understood. As far as I know, the long-term effects of vaccines were never studied in the clinical trials used to obtain FDA approval. Nor were the synergistic effects of combinations of different vaccines. It seems plausible that vaccines have had subtle, negative long-term effects on peoples' immune systems. Unfortunately, this possibility has received little attention from mainstream medical researchers and public health organizations, perhaps due to the enormous power and influence of pharmaceutical corporations.
+1
Glad someone here isn't mind controlled by the industry-funded safety studies of vaccines.
Vaccine Destruction wrote:
Vaccines can be damn destructive and fatal in some cases! The science of the hazards of vaccines is well documented. They can cause immune activation; which can cause autoimmune diseases.
Hi random anti-vax shill who trolls the internet looking for random forums to spread propaganda. You're obviously clueless if you think vaccines "can cause immune activation." That is their entire purpose. You discredit yourself from any discussion if you dont even realize that basic point.
Also, all the "studies" you posted are bogus. They're not even studies, they're conspiracy theory ramblings trying to link autism to vaccines, something that has been repeatedly and irirrefutably discredited. You havent even done a good job of keeping up with the latest propoganda of your fellow antivax nutcases, they've all moved away from the autism link pseudoscience and are pimping other nonsense now.
Keep making fake anti-vax doctors rich by spreading their lies! You're playing right into their hands, they need pawns like you to fight the blind fight for them.
The problem with this entire thread is that none of you understand what is going on with the pertussis vaccine. By framing this around whether or not someone "gets" pertussis, you miss the whole point.
Take all other vaccines out of the equation. Every vaccine preventable disease is different and every vaccine works in a different way.
To understand what is happening with pertussis today, you have to understand where we have been. The vaccine used historically for pertussis was the whole cell vaccine in the DTP shot. If you are in ~ your mid 20s or older, you most likely received the whole cell vaccine at some point in your childhood.
But a small but significant percentage of kids were experiencing severe side effects from the whole cell pertussis vaccine including severe brain damage and death. This is before the internet, before the widespread woo science we have today. In the 1980s, vaccine manufacturers were threatening to stop making the vaccine because they were getting sued by so many families of the children their vaccine killed. So the government created the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program and created laws that make it impossible to sue vaccine manufacturers.
The quest for a safer pertussis vaccine began, and brought us the acellular pertussis vaccine. This is a much safer vaccine, with far fewer serious side effects.
But here is the problem with this discussion. You all are framing the conversation around whether or not this vaccine PREVENTS pertussis.
The science is becoming more and more clear that it does a poor job of preventing pertussis, I will post links below.
What is DOES do fairly well is reduce the symptoms of pertussis, to the point that the child is either has no symptoms or has very mild symptoms.
As far as the vaccinated child goes, that is a GOOD thing. This SAVES LIVES. This is a huge benefit to the vaccinated child. Pertussis really sucks for most people who get it. I have a friend who had it as an adult a few years ago (I am not sure if he was ever vaccinated or not) and he was basically non stop sever coughing for a month.
As far as public health goes, the pertussis vaccine we are using today does not provide herd immunity. It actually does the opposite, because during pertussis outbreaks, vaccinated children are catching the disease and because their vaccine is effective at reducing the symptoms, no one knows they have it.
This is why cocooning infants (vaccinating everyone around them for pertussis) has failed to protect them. Now they want women to get the vaccine during pregnancy, in hopes that it increases the baby's resistance to pertussis in the first few months, when they are most vulnerable.
We know that during pertussis outbreaks, the majority of identified cases are in vaccinated children. The true rate in which vaccinated children are _spreading_ pertussis is unknown because generally no one is testing healthy kids during outbreaks, and the truth is, doctors are reluctant to test vaccinated kids for diseases they have been vaccinated against. I have experienced this with my kids, I had to push to get a pertussis test done when my son had a cough for a week (he ended up having RSV and rhinovirus, not pertussis) and I have had friends with similar experiences with mumps as well.
Here is an excellent peer reviewed study about asymptomatic pertussis transmission:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4482312/pdf/12916_2015_Article_382.pdf
Here is the now famous study in baboons that showed very clearly that asymptomatic transmission is a big problem with the acellular vaccine:
https://www.pnas.org/content/111/2/787
As a parent today, what are your options? We don't have the whole cell vaccine in the US. IMO, getting the vaccine is better than not. We don't know if today's vaccinated kids will have any protection from pertussis as adults, but it is not like measles or chickenpox where it is a more serious disease in adults. Pertussis is most serious in young children.
I vaccinated my kids on time for pertussis, despite the limitations of the vaccine.
But are anti-vaxers to blame for the resurgence of pertussis? The SCIENCE clearly shows NO. I feel bad for their kids if their kids get pertussis, because they will probably be VERY sick, but they will also be staying home, not spreading pertussis in the community. The vaccinated kids whose vaccine is working are the ones spreading pertussis during an outbreak because no one knows they are contagious.
Families have been torn apart by this issue. New parents have it drilled into them that anyone who does not receive this vaccine must never be near their child. And unfortunately, the science has shown this to be false. All of the drama over nothing. Vaccinating everyone in the family for pertussis has utterly failed to protect infants. This vaccine only protects the individual being vaccinated.
And again, all of this ONLY applies to pertussis. Measles, chickenpox, mumps, influenza... the science is completely different for all of those diseases and vaccines.
tl;dr: The pertussis vaccine used today doesn't really prevent pertussis, it weakens the symptoms, don't blame anti-vaxers for pertussis outbreaks.
It's true what's he is saying. The immune will protect the non-vaccinated, up to a certain point.
BREAKING: Literally ALL of the 30 Youths who contracted Whooping Cough in Los Angeles county WERE Vaccinated.
I'd rather live in a world where people die form disease than one in which they live doped up on meds or rolling around on rascals because they are too fat to walk.
The idea that science improves life unequivocally is cute. In the past twenty years it's only allowed myopic endomorphs to assume a higher posistion in society, and to create things that cost money.
Screw it, let's all go on vacation get fat and be oblivious!
None of them were not vaccinated?
I heard that all of them were vaccinated.
Bre Payton, Fox News freelancer who died of the flu at 26 in December, said vaccines are from the devil.