Who said cross country is dead in Europe? More than 8,000 have entered 2019 English xc champs

When I was at college we ran in

London Colleges XC league (for UCl)

Reebok students XC league (for UL)

UL XC champs

BUSF XC champs

not to mention all the student road and xc relays including our own UCL CX relays held on Parliament Hill.

Track was another matter as by May most of us were busy with exams and the UL activities were spread out with a central track nowhere near us, down in Surrey.

As for nationals I've run in both the English and Scottish - up here we have a 4k short course event now held in Nov as well as the long event in Feb at Falkirk. The senior English event is awesome especially trying to get a photo of the start then desparately trying to leg it out the way in time. Best one was the year I passed Ron Hill.

The British/Welsh/Scottish and Irish consider themselves to be culturally different from continental Europe, so Rojo again is working with an erroneous premise.

The question should not be, "is cross country dead on continental Europe?"The question should be, "was cross country ever alive?"

Does anyone have information or speculation why distance running is way more popular in the UK, Ireland, USA, and anywhere else UKers and Irish immigrated to over the centuries. Compared to continental Europe?

Worms of worms wrote:

Does anyone have information or speculation why distance running is way more popular in the UK, Ireland, USA, and anywhere else UKers and Irish immigrated to over the centuries. Compared to continental Europe?

The Norwegian raids made them run, and only the best survived.

Also see Charles Darwin

is there a Master (40 over) division?

findoutsoon said : is there a Master (40 over) division?

British Masters Open Cross Country Championships are at Stormont Park, Belfast on 9 March.

cheers.

Apples wrote:

I do think it's worth mentioning that at Club XC in Spokane in December there were 1229 total finishers in the six races. Obviously this pales in comparison to England's 8000 (and I didn't see masters listed on the schedule in England), but it might be closer to comparing apples to apples as I assume the vibrant club system is well represented at the English Championships. Also, I didn't bother to do the math, but that same December day in Reno there were hundreds of juniors competing as well. I don't know if Scotland or England, etc. have multiple "national championships" (i.e. Club XC Nationals in December and US Nationals in February) like the US does, but I thought this was worth consideration as comparisons are thrown about.

We have loads of different National Championships....its a bit confusing.

Inter Counties (effectively the UK Championships) - to run this you have to be selected by your county - covers all age groups U13 to Senior. There is a counties team race within it.

Each country then has its own National Championship (Eng, Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland) - all age groups, open to all - this tends to have the largest fields at senior level (e.g. about 2000 for the senior mens race). Includes a club team race. NB - entries this year will be slightly down because last years race was in London where more people live - this year its in Leeds so a lot of the London/south-east based don't travel.

Below this, for England anyway, there are Area championships a few weeks earlier (South, North, Midlands).

Then you've got the University Championships - open to University Students (of any age).

The the Schools Championships (slightly different age groups but effectively U15, U17 and U19).

Oh yeah, forget the masters stuff too.

Yeah no standards, just have to be part of a club. I'm running tomorrow and am probably currently in about 21 minute 5k shape, so miles away from decent. I'll be much nearer the back than the front, but I'll still beat 4-500 people.

The thing is, if you take England, pick a venue, probably 95%+ of the population are going to be within a 2-3 hours drive of it, if that. So for national XC, my club used to simply put on a coach, and we would travel to it together (if you chose to).

With the USA, I could imagine there is considerable expense getting to a race if, for e.g. you live in New York, and the race is in San Francisco. Or for pretty much anyone going out of state. There would also be hotels involved. And planes.

The English national XC has a long tradition and it will always pull in runners - a lot of people prefer it to the inter counties (I have always preferred the inter counties). Also, when it's at Parliament Hill, the catchment for that area is brilliant, so the amount of people who are able to run is going to be good. There are millions within an hour of that location.

XC is cost effective. You have coaches with boots full of spikes that they give to youngsters, athletics club fees that are often maybe £20-£30 a year, free kit provided sometimes - they go above and beyond to make sure it is accessible to all - if someone desperately wants to run or has a talent. Pretty much everyone has socks, you can get black shorts from SportsDirect for £1.49 and a club vest can be loaned out. Then you're transported to the race. Point being, it is accessible.

To the second post:

For high school there is district schools, then county schools, then English Schools (the best meet of the year).

For university there was BUSA and now I believe it is BUCS.

I cannot speak for anyone in France, Spain etc but in England, EVERYONE tries XC in high school, it's often a weekly thing. And the high schools then send the best people to the district schools race which is usually in the town the high school is near or in (on a field), and from there you are selected for the county team. So people with talent are picked up. I'd imagine anyone who wants to run in the district schools probably can. If you liked running, you would stand out in your PE lesson, everyone in the school year would have a chance. That is how I ended up in a club, there are coaches from local clubs at the district schools (even though they are not part of the system) and they approach people.

Also for a fair comparison I think you should combine: England + Wales + Scotland + NI championship numbers to make the UK. I'd be interested to see that number.

I've run several times in the English National XC Champs, as well as the Southerns on Parliament Hill. Great events. The exact distance is irrelevant, as is time. What counts is just giving your all and passing as many people as possible without bursting any blood vessels from trying so hard. Having grown up in Illinois and run XC in HS and college, the excitement around the event IMO is only comparable to the State XC meet, with all the fans and family and friends on the sidelines, only all those people are also running in their respective divisions (kids in the kids race, parents in the seniors, etc.). In Switzerland (current location), XC seems to be dying out. Used to get decent fields at the local races and championships, but trail and mountain running sort of fill the void for those who seek getting dirty in their competitive efforts (not to mention it's during the ski season). Also, they do it WC style with a short loop on a messy field and you go around it up to 5 or 6 times. It's really tough and if you're having a bad day, totally miserable.

Cross country is dead in England:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABx-4PdogpA

95% are not within 3 hours of Parliament Hill. Take Manchester that's 4 hours plus in normal traffic. Newcastle an hour plus more. Probably Birmingham as a venue is most central

That said compared to America it's easy.

One year a guy at our club hired a whole train for runners. On the way back there was a band playing in the guard van!

Whilst I agree with plenty that you're saying there's really no need to exaggerate so strongly. Makes the rest of us look bad.

I run for a London club and I'll be in Leeds tomorrow but to say that 95%+ of the population are within 2-3 hour drive of most places in England is frankly BS. It's a 4.5 hour drive to Leeds from London. And as you well know there are PLENTY of clubs further South or in the South West who are adding 2, 3 or more hours on top of that. Likewise any of the northern clubs coming down to Parli Hill.

Cost wise you're basically right though. We're doing travel and the overnight stay for £90 a head, subsidised partially by the club. The value for money in club running the UK is astounding considering the level of coaching and huge volume of free races.

Also, not everyone tries XC. Even vaguely. Perhaps most kids who go to private school or go to school in the countryside. I went to a mixed comp in London and don't have a single friend from any other school in the city who even knew XC existed when we were there. For age reference I'm currently 33. No inner city comprehensive school has any kind of athletics or XC team. And half my club are the same, picked up the sport as adults after having no idea it existed as kids. The first time I stepped foot on a track I was 31. What I would say is that amateur athletics is much stronger for that fact because so many find the sport at a later age and have that passion. Instead of associating it with something you were forced to do as a child.

track chick wrote:

I cannot speak for anyone in France, Spain etc but in England, EVERYONE tries XC in high school, it's often a weekly thing.

Demonstrably false, but the rest of this post is legit.

I think X country and 'small track' / indoor track is where this all has to go.

Track is a dying sport, that relies on hugely expensive stadiums and little interest.

It needs to be a velodrome type deal where it can be supported by locals.

sillyman wrote:

I think X country and 'small track' / indoor track is where this all has to go.

Track is a dying sport, that relies on hugely expensive stadiums and little interest.

It needs to be a velodrome type deal where it can be supported by locals.

Perhaps both- large and small. I think in the US meets in smaller stadiums would help bring it back- they would look full.

There are many European meets in all kinds of stadiums with large and small crowds.

I've always felt that using the established "big" meets in the US would help- have a "Dream Mile" with Americans at the Penn Relays for example.

Track WAS popular in the US. Watch the video of the "Dream Mile" between Liquari and Ryan in Philadelphia in 1971 as an example- live TV and look at the crowd.

Rojo, you asked "Who said cross country is dead in Europe?" The correct answer is "nobody."

Since we now know this thread is based on a false premise, please delete it.