Student loan debt

Lack of Experience wrote:

I will state that I am near $50k in student debt still. I graduated from undergrad during the Great Recession. I went to graduate school the first time because it was all that was available to me and seemed like the best option to further my career and, well, not starve . Local news dubbed the recession impacts locally as "brain drain" from the nearby institutions. This was making the lives of job applicants very difficult. I also was not making enough money to get out and test other places either.

With many student loans the university takes what they need first and then sends you a refund check. Many semesters I would get a refund check of about $1800 to last me approximately 20-weeks with spring not including summer. Often times this would not suffice for 3 months rent and basic necessities in my locale. Loan amounts were determined on decade old rent rates. Meanwhile, my campus and surrounding area were experiencing rental building growth which was further complicating the price floor. Again, jobs were quite limited on my campus and when I did get university affiliated jobs theyd be $12/hr for high skilled work. It was a joke!

I recall one summer I worked for eight or nine weeks, mid-June to August, and didnt recieve a paycheck until September. Was this wrong? Definitely YES! Could I do anything about it? Sure, voice an opinion but then I'd lose my job and future university reference. Co-workers were more than upset and some rightfully quit. There were plenty of people waiting in line for their jobs though. One person quit and over 100 applied for her position. Twelve an hour was a good for a student job at the time too. This was a tough summer for me and I am sure many others.

Things I would like to add to the post written by "Education is not elitist" is that from Kindergarten onward educational achievement was emphasized in our curriculum. Scratch that, the need for educational achievement was indoctrinated.

The competition started in second grade for the gifted and talented programs and high math classes. You needed top grades to get into high math. You needed high math to get in high middle school math. You needed high middle school math classes to push you into the window of opportunity to take advanced Calculus courses while still in HS. Finally, you wanted to do near perfect in high school so you could get into a competitive university and obtain a good job. Because if you didnt get a good job you would be unsiccessful and poor which nobody wants.

Choices and decisions started early. What went into those decisions was an "at all costs put education first" attitude. At 18-23, coming from non-supportive parents who simultaneously displaced me from varying levels of financial aid due to their incomes, of course I signed those documents without a second guess. My mentality was that I would do anything for my education because it would lead me to success.

In essence, I graduated with a competitive major with a 3.4 GPA at a very good school. I went the same school for graduate school. Now being in my early thirties I can visually see the facade and trap I fell into. It is not your work ethic or your grades that necessarily get you from point A to point B or to success. Success is something many people are fraternized with more so than it is rewarded to those who work hard. This really, really sucks for the people who had dreams fueling their pursuit. My vision, in particular, was not what to be where I am at today. Loans have crippled my life and permeated many other parts of it too.

Millenials were indoctrinated with the notion that post secondary education was vital for success. We were coached that a linear relationship between educational achievement and long term financial security (success) existed. We were taught along with the 20 or so classes behind us and 10 or so in front of us that basically nothing would be as important as our college education.

Well, I did what I was told. What I was told was not a lie but rather an assumption or an ideal. The problem was I was characterized, molded and grown around those ideals and those ideals halted when I graduated.

Bottom line is by the late 1990s and early 2000s too many kids were sent to college which saturated the salaried job market. Another problem is that the cost of a college education far exceeded inflationary measures. To afford it, people like me did whatever they had to get to the finish. Then right when I got out the surrounding economic reality hit me hard.

Sorry for spelling errors! Phone keyboard is terrible.

I am a winner wrote:

you are a moran wrote:

And where exactly are you getting your data from?

All the kids I know who chose an expensive school chose it because they believed it would get them the best job and provide the best education to help them achieve their goals in life.

Honest fact, the best and brightest rarely teach at community college.

In hindsight, I can say community college makes financial sense in a lot of cases, but I don't blame anyone for not wanting to take that route at 18. To an 18 year old, it's as if you are already giving up.

And honestly, why should our brightest kids have to go to our worst schools purely for financial reasons? In the long run, it seems like a misallocation of resources.

Well, they were wrong. They bought into a false reality.

You are right the best and brightest rarely teach at community college. But, when taking your generals, there is not much of a drop off overall. Seriously, do you need to pay top dollar for general courses? Of course not.

I'm not saying they 'have to' go to our worst schools. I'm saying they have other more cost effective options that offer as good of education for undergrad. I've known kids that legitimately were the brightest, but they made poor choices. An example is a kid that got a full ride to Vandy which is a pretty good school, but ended up going to Stanford with little financial assistance because 'it was their dream school'. The brightest kids make these choices everyday, looking at the shiny object versus what makes the best financial sense and parents go along with it because 'its their dream'.

You say that they chose the most expensive school because they thought it would give them the best job. I call b.s. They chose the expensive school over a variety of capable options because it was their dream school and got tunnel vision. That poor choice is choosing luxury vs. practicality. I was one of those kids that looking back paid for that 'luxury' when I could have went to similar colleges nearby for half the price and had some good sizable loans as a result.

Student loan debt guy lol wrote:

I've been seeing so many social media posts / articles / discussions lately. It seems to be ramping up, though it has been a high profile topic for years.

I entered university right around when things really got out of control (2006), and by the time I had graduated I had accumulated about 50k in loans. Maybe a little more, actually.

Many millennials want student loan forgiveness. You'll often hear that it's not fair, to NOT fully forgive student loan debt.

While a part of me understands their frustration, what do those millennials have to say about someone like me: I worked hard in a competitive major, which led to a stable job. I also live frugally in a tiny, cheap home and never buy things like new clothes, electronics, etc. Unless I need to. Ive had the same cell phone since 2013. Because of this, I've never missed a monthly loan payment and I've pretty much almost completely paid the loans off. Has it set me back? Yeah, obviously. Would they be willing to cut me a check for $50k?

You sound entitled wrote:

better check the dictionary, punk wrote:

entitled? wtf are you talking about? I'm not sure if you know what that means. I'm entitled because I want today's generation to have a decent shot at attending college without incurring soul-crushing debt? I'm not asking for anything for myself. I went to college over 20 years ago. I realize I was lucky to go to school when i did.

What made you think I was college age? the fact that i refer to college-aged kids as 'kids'?

What made me think you are college aged? The fact that you spout such idealistic tripe about kids deserving the best just because. Any self respecting 40+ year old should know that the real world does not and will not ever proffer fairness and that one own’s lot in life depends on his/her own initiative rather than society’s largesse.

you sound like a real winner wrote:

I am a winner wrote:

Well, they were wrong. They bought into a false reality.

You are right the best and brightest rarely teach at community college. But, when taking your generals, there is not much of a drop off overall. Seriously, do you need to pay top dollar for general courses? Of course not.

I'm not saying they 'have to' go to our worst schools. I'm saying they have other more cost effective options that offer as good of education for undergrad. I've known kids that legitimately were the brightest, but they made poor choices. An example is a kid that got a full ride to Vandy which is a pretty good school, but ended up going to Stanford with little financial assistance because 'it was their dream school'. The brightest kids make these choices everyday, looking at the shiny object versus what makes the best financial sense and parents go along with it because 'its their dream'.

You say that they chose the most expensive school because they thought it would give them the best job. I call b.s. They chose the expensive school over a variety of capable options because it was their dream school and got tunnel vision. That poor choice is choosing luxury vs. practicality. I was one of those kids that looking back paid for that 'luxury' when I could have went to similar colleges nearby for half the price and had some good sizable loans as a result.

Ok you know a kid who made a bad choice? now i have completely changed my mind ,lol

The question remains....WHY is the US the only country that makes our kid even have to make these choices?

We have enough money to spend trillions on needless wars, yet can't figure out how not to charge teenagers a quarter of a million dollars to get an undergrad degree?

Yes, there are bad choices being made, but that isn't the main issue. The issue is that they are given some shitty options to begin with. Do we REALLY want the 'right answer' for our kids to be 'don't get the best education you can, get the best one you can afford while delivering pizzas and falling into massive soul crushing debt'

We are the richest country in the world and frankly, this is bullshit. We can do better. The entire rest of the industrialized world seems to be.

suppy and dumand wrote:

I don't disagree that people need to pay for things they want, but the cost of US education is a complete joke. THAT is the problem. It's skewed to the degree that only a few majors will actually pay for themselves. By your thinking then, we should only invest in those majors. No, we should assess the costs of our education system while still subsidizing the costs for students.

You avoided my question. Why do you think that people need to 'pay for what they want,' but somehow high school students get a free pass? Your logic is inconsistent. How can you advocate that education be dictated purely by 'supply and demand' economics, yet be OK with free high school and elementary school?

Fact is, you've already conceded to my point, that the social benefit of an educated population is worth subsidizing.

A normal sane person admits to the benefits of capitalism and free markets without being an uncompromising slave to the ideology. Most sane people see the benefit in a free education system, public highways, libraries, national parks, and bus systems that will almost never turn a direct profit. How can you be ok with the state subsidizing those enterprises, yet opposed to subsidized college education simply on economic principle? Capitalism is the best system we have devised so far but is' flawed, and only a fool would insist on dogmatically following the ideology at all costs.

PS

To answer your last question, I'm working on a novel that has already been highly praised by a Pulitzer finalist. It's not a masterpiece and won't live on for eternity, but it is worthwhile and has value. You might be content with meeting the immediate needs of your family, but others have different ambitions and you shouldn't begrudge them for it.

suppy and dumand wrote:

By your thinking then, we should only invest in those majors. No, we should assess the costs of our education system while still subsidizing the costs for students.

suppy and dumand wrote:

How can you be ok with the state subsidizing those enterprises, yet opposed to subsidized college education simply on economic principle? Capitalism is the best system we have devised so far but is' flawed, and only a fool would insist on dogmatically following the ideology at all costs.

suppy and dumand wrote:To answer your last question, I'm working on a novel that has already been highly praised by a Pulitzer finalist. It's not a masterpiece and won't live on for eternity, but it is worthwhile and has value.

suppy and dumand wrote:

You might be content with meeting the immediate needs of your family, but others have different ambitions and you shouldn't begrudge them for it.

middle class college parent wrote:

It really is out of control because it's getting to be unaffordable. I have two kids right now who are both in private colleges. I am taking on the funding for this because I am not sure how they would be able to afford to live otherwise when they graduate.

I'm not buying that any one group deserves student loan forgiveness over another. We're swimming in bills right now. I live in a state that is pushing public college for free at the expense of taxpayers. Those public colleges do not have the course of study for either of my kids. I'm having trouble sending my own kids through college so I'm not interested in breaking my back putting others through college also.

Restricting increases in tuition to inflation is something that can be discussed. Forgiving student loan debt will turn the world upside down. Someone has to pay. At the end of the day I am unwilling to pay the debts of others. After my kids are out I want to start earning for my retirement.

I pay a lot of taxes and I am always happy to see it helping others but if people want me to keep working hard everyday there has to be some incentive for me. If all my wages are going to go to everyone else and I don't get to keep any of it I will not be working anymore. That my friends is the bubble that is bursting right now at least in my life.