29 NCAA guys have broken 4:00 this year- what's the most ever?

Guess what! Even middle distance runners from metric countries take incredible pride and delight in breaking 4 minutes in the mile, even with each knowing that he is just one of many who has surpassed that barrier. It's a milestone that has great meaning to 100% of talented distance guys. Only those who can't break 4 would say otherwise.

I know a 4:01 miler, now retired from international competition, who hails from a metric country. Despite his home country's metric standard, he regrets not being part of the Sub-4 Club. At the height of his career, he moved up to concentrate on the 5k and 10k, and it just so happens that he didn't race the mile again to break the barrier (attempt to break the barrier) when he had the talent. He knows he can never say he was a sub-4 miler, even though his 1500 PR converts to a sub-4 mile. Doesn't count, and he knows it. Regret...minor, but regret.

Any barrier is a measuring stick, and to break that particular barrier is a reward. It's 3:50 for a scant few, 3:55 for others, 4:00 for a growing number, 4:10 - especially for high schoolers, etc. They are barriers, each and every one, and when broken, there can be great reasons to rejoice.

Let's not forget, as well, that the general public in the US, and certainly elsewhere, still thinks a sub-4 is off-the-charts elite. That appeal makes races like the annual Sir Walter Miler and the HOKA ONE ONE Long Island Mile much more fun for fans and runners alike.

The bummer at times is the fact that with the 1500m - the Olympic distance - being run at so many meets, the chances to go for mile PRs, or just to break 4, are limited. Then factor in weather and tactical racing, and other chances to grab the proverbial golden ring of a sub-4 performance go out the window.

Breaking 4:00 in the mile will be motivation for countless runners for...a...little...while...longer.

Info wrote:

Splitty McSplitterson wrote:

There have only been 27 guys break 4 this year according to tfrrs. Altitude conversions dont count.

TFRRS is not an all inclusive list. It carries most college performances, but not every meet/race is makes it into their data base . Also, I don’t think the NCAA Championship meets actually make it into their data base either.

Which meet hasn’t been reported to tfrrs that has had a sub 4 collegiate? Since 2010 or 2011, the NCAA and NAIA have required that any qualifiers for a national championship must come from a tfrrs reported result/meet. And YES, the championship races make it into the Direct Athletics/TFRRS database... Source: I time races

Huh?!?! said: Which meet hasn’t been reported to tfrrs that has had a sub 4 collegiate?

well, I don't consider myself particularly adept at searching TFRRS so maybe I'm just missing a trick here, but I can't find any of the Sir Wlter Raleigh Miles on there and they have collegians go sub-4 practically every year.

cheers.

They might care, but I can guarantee not as much as fast 1500 times or as much as people in the US. In my country I've never seen a mile run. Makes it pretty hard to get a sub4 if you aren't given the chance. If people really cared about running fast miles then more meets would offer miles.

Leddy Gee wrote:

I did my best to go through tfrrs and get a count for each year since 2010. I had to count altitude and track conversions and remove any that were not actual sub 4s. I may have made some mistakes so feel free to double check.

Number of NCAA indoor sub 4 miles each year since 2010

2019 - 28

2018 - 23

2017 - 20

2016 - 30

2015 - 27

2014 - 18

2013 - 28

2012 - 31

2011 - 21

2010 - 19

Really interesting how 2017 had 66% of the sub 4 miles that 2016 had.

TFRRS tracks in season races.

ezby said wrote: In my country I've never seen a mile run. Makes it pretty hard to get a sub4 if you aren't given the chance. If people really cared about running fast miles then more meets would offer miles.

below is a list of the countries where sub-4 miles have been run, all 43 of them. if they don't run them where you live then maybe you can get to one of these countries so that you can at least see a sub-4. or maybe you can become a meet promoter and have your very own sub-4 named after your personal hero.

watching a sub-4 mile isn't everyone's idea of fun (I personally cannot understand what folks find so fascinating with motor racing, but hey, it takes all kinds) but I find track races of any distance utterly fascinating.

country / sub-4s

Australia 126

Austria 12

Belgium 97

Canada 122

China 2

Croatia 14

Czech Republic 14

Denmark 16

England 961

Estonia 2

Finland 36

France 57

Germany 275

Greece 10

Guadeloupe 1

Hungary 2

Indonesia 3

Ireland 319

Italy 184

Jamaica 16

Japan 9

Jersey 1

Kenya 6

Luxembourg 11

Monaco 20

Netherlands 16

New Zealand 167

Northern Ireland 40

Norway 383

Portugal 2

Puerto Rico 1

Romania 1

Russia 21

Scotland 56

Slovakia 24

South Africa 206

Spain 60

Sweden 134

Switzerland 110

Turkey 1

United States 3138

Wales 23

cheers.

Impressive numbers from Ireland but none of them make it to world class level in the last 30 years.

cotton shirt wrote:

Huh?!?! said: Which meet hasn’t been reported to tfrrs that has had a sub 4 collegiate?

well, I don't consider myself particularly adept at searching TFRRS so maybe I'm just missing a trick here, but I can't find any of the Sir Wlter Raleigh Miles on there and they have collegians go sub-4 practically every year.

cheers.

The Sir Walter Mile is in August, post NCAA championships. I’m glad you don’t consider yourself adept, as it shows that you’re not!

Thank you for these great stats! Do you have a list of who has the most sub-4s in American history as well? That might be cool to see.

Huh?!?! wrote:

Info wrote:

TFRRS is not an all inclusive list. It carries most college performances, but not every meet/race is makes it into their data base . Also, I don’t think the NCAA Championship meets actually make it into their data base either.

Which meet hasn’t been reported to tfrrs that has had a sub 4 collegiate? Since 2010 or 2011, the NCAA and NAIA have required that any qualifiers for a national championship must come from a tfrrs reported result/meet. And YES, the championship races make it into the Direct Athletics/TFRRS database... Source: I time races

Based on some other post, perhaps I was thinking of some of those Summer results (like Sir Walter) that don’t make it in. And maybe some of the meets that didn’t make TFRRS were meets with out collegians. My memory is fuzzy, but in past years, I think I remember Millrose Games not being in TFRRS, or maybe it was the Millrose Gms open mile, which had collegians. There have been meets that have had a separate elite field, or an elite meet with a separate open field that didn’t make it.... if I have time I can try to provide an example... if any examples exist

Huh?!?! said: The Sir Walter Mile is in August, post NCAA championships. I’m glad you don’t consider yourself adept, as it shows that you’re not!

I'm terribly sorry, but I don't understand the point you are trying to make. I understand the following to be true:

1. info said that TFRRS was, "not an all inclusive list." you doubted this and asked for the name of a meet at which collegians go sub-4, but which is not reported on TFRRS. I provided one, the very first one I thought of off the top of my head. I admitted that I 'm not particularly adept at searching so it might be there after all, but I couldn't find it. you have now confirmed that it is not actually there.

2. therefore, info is correct, TFRRS is not all inclusive. I am correct, the Sir Walter Raleigh Mile is not on there. but you are wrong. there is at least one meet where collegians regularly go sub-4 but which is not on TFRRS. pointing out that the Sir Walter Raleigh Mile is in August is irrelevant. it meets all the criteria you gave; collegians go sub-4, it is not on TFRRS. the end.

3. my searching skills have not been shown up, because, as you have confirmed, that I could not find it is because it was not there to be found. all we have learned, those of us who can read, is that you are not clear on the distinction between college meets and meets with collegians in them.

4. I'm not 100% certain that you are not just a troll.

cheers.

fasdfdsfasfdfsfsd wrote: Thank you for these great stats! Do you have a list of who has the most sub-4s in American history as well? That might be cool to see.

top-20 all-time sub-4 list

name / sub-4s

Steve Scott (USA) 135

John Walker (NZL) 129

Marcus O'Sullivan (IRL) 102

Ray Flynn (IRL) 86

Eamonn Coghlan (IRL) 76

Johan Fourie (RSA) 53

Jim Spivey (USA) 45

Nick Willis (NZL) 42

Wilson Waigwa (KEN) 42

Kevin Sullivan (CAN) 41

Noureddine Morceli (ALG) 40

Sydney Maree (USA) 38

Steve Cram (GBR) 35

Thomas Wessinghage (FRG) 35

Mike Boit (KEN) 35

John Mayock (GBR) 32

Steve Ovett (GBR) 32

Laban Rotich (KEN) 32

Steve Holman (USA) 31

Jim Ryun (USA) 29

top-20 all-time US sub-4 list

name / sub-4s

Steve Scott (USA) 135

Jim Spivey (USA) 45

Sydney Maree (USA) 38

Steve Holman (USA) 31

Jim Ryun (USA) 29

Craig Masback (USA) 28

Jason Pyrah (USA) 25

Leonel Manzano (USA) 24

Marty Liquori (USA) 23

Garrett Heath (USA) 23

Bernard Lagat (USA) 22

Will Leer (USA) 22

Alan Webb (USA) 22

Jim Grelle (USA) 21

Tom Byers (USA) 21

Lopez Lomong (USA) 20

Ben Blankenship (USA) 20

Kyle Merber (USA) 20

Chuck Aragon (USA) 19

Matthew Centrowitz (USA) 19

cheers.

OK, I was able to find some examples:

First, my main point was that the list you see on the TFRRS do not carry every performance, it may be missing some. I am now learning to state that the list is a qualifying marks list prior to the NCAA Champs meet. Marks may still make their "database," but not necessarily their list.

Here are the examples...

1) The 2017 NCAA outdoor champs results are not on the TFRRS list, because I have learned the list is a qualifying list...so I am guessing its frozen once the NCAA Champs qualifying period is over. These times can be found under the runners TFRRS profile (in the "database"), but not on any TFRRS list that I am aware of.

Neil Gourley 3:40.52, NCAA Champs, 4semi1..... his best listed on TFRRS is 3:42.82 from 4-21-17

Vincent Ciattei 3:44.83, NCAA Champs, 9th final.... his best is listed on TFRRS as 3:45.38 from 4-21-17

Here is another example of a "missing" mark...

2) James Randon, ran a 3:58.85i at the IC4A on 3-5-16... his best is listed on TFRRS as 4:00.53i from 2-12-16. This is an example of a time, and a sub-4 at that, not being included on the TFRRS list. Why did this not make the list? Perhaps the IC4A was held outside of the NCAA Champs qualifying window. I'm not sure.

So, with these notes, looking at the TFRRS list to count how many broke this or that time will give close to a 100% report, but keep in mind the list are qualifying list leading up to but not including the NCAA results and any meets outside the qualifying window (IC4A example above?), or any meets/results that for some reason didn't get reported (but I found no examples of this unless that 2016 IC4A is an example). However, I do recall in the past examples of this, but I am now thinking the omission was noticed and the results were later added into the list. My recollection was that it was a meet in New York (Millrose or Collegiate Inv?)

Also, if you omit an altitude conversion time, or a flat track conversion time, keep in mind that the runners "second best performance" may actually meet the criteria you are looking for. For example, if you are looking for indoor sub-4's and runner X ran a 4:02 at altitude, and it coverts to a 3:57 mile time, and that 3:57 is on the list, you would omit it...but if their second best performance was a 3:59 at sea level on a normal 200m banked track, well that time meets your criteria, so you would be off by one.

Awesome! Thank you!

In a follow up to my post above ...

The current 2019 indoor TFRRS qualifying list is for some reason not carrying Sean Torpy (4:01.81i, 1r4 Meyo Invite) or Cristopher Torpy (4:03.40i, 6r5 Meyo Invite). It also doesn't not have Sean Torpy (1:48.44i, 3rd Wilson Invite). These are Miami-Ohio athletes. I believe Miami-Ohio is Div I, but I also looked at Div II, Div III, and NAIA.

Others in those races appear on the qualifying list (like Yared Nuguse 4:01.10, and Owen Day 4:01.25), and the Torpys appear on the Middle Amercica (MAC) list.

So, it appears to be a glitch. If its not fixed by the end of the qualifying periuod, then there is another example of TFRRS not being quite 100%

It's still a great tool.

Of course a non collegiate meet isn’t going to be on a collegiate tracking database.... not only are your searching skills lacking, your reasoning skills are lacking too.

You know what else you won’t find on tfrrs? The Junior High meet my cousin ran in last May. Wanna know why? It.was.not.a.collegiate.meet.