Rupp fan wrote:
You seem to be starting with the assumption that your way is “correct”.
His way is correct, for him, which is his choice, not yours.
Sure, it's probably not right for you, besides your not being able to punctuate properly.
The issue is that her way, which she feels is correct for her, is not a good match for him and his way.
In fact their different ways clash with each other.
Therefore, they should both go their own "ways."
UltraDude wrote:
Maybe you should make an appointment with a financial planner for both of you. She needs to understand where she is on the bell curve of savers/spenders. Probably hearing it from you will result in a big blow-up, but maybe it will be more favorably received and taken to heart if it comes from a neutral third party.
This is a pretty good idea. It’s a good way to see if she is less thin skinned when it comes to a 3rd party. It’s like couples therapy but not.
Also whatever you said about her being the best girlfriend so far... have you progressively had better girlfriends? If you’ve been getting better at knowing what kind of person is compatible and you don’t really see a definite future with her maybe you should move on.
Frugal Guy wrote:
I'll respond to this bit since it came up in a few others' posts. I'm assuming you guys are either very young or very naive (or both). When a man and woman get married, if they get divorced, the net wealth of the couple combined generally gets split at least 50:50, often times 60:40, 70:30, or even more, in favor of the woman. Given more than 50% of marriages end in divorce, it does not make sense for a man to take that financial risk when his worth is many times that of the woman. In my case, the difference is more than $150,000 as I have about $100,000 and she has more than $50,000 of debt. Being unwilling to marry someone in that scenario is not "emotionally cold." It's sensible and a matter of protecting oneself from losing 50+ percent of their wealth over a breakup. The relationship can be nearly identical without having finances legally bound, so why bind them? Relationships can still be good, healthy, and long-term without culminating in marriage.
Wrong - I am married and am familiar with how marriage/divorce work legally.
The main point is this: if you're not manning up and telling her that marriage is off the table, then your whole approach and concern here about her finances is moot. This is true because out there in American society the operating assumptions is absolutely that a serious relationship will culminate in marriage. Have you considered that she thinks it's none of your business because she assumes you as a couple are not even close to getting married (and it's therefore none of your damn business how she handles her money)?
Your assumptions are so over the edge, man. You cannot possibly assume that she must be aware that she's disqualified herself from marriage, period. That is such an insane assumption.
go deeper, dude wrote:
Your assumptions are so over the edge, man. You cannot possibly assume that she must be aware that she's disqualified herself from marriage, period. That is such an insane assumption.
That's not an assumption, because to him, she has disqualified herself from marriage.
That you can not see that is not relevant. Also, you're assuming that she doesn't already know this.
Women are spenders. That is how they keep their little head from exploding. That is the truth. There are exceptions but not many. I think many here will agree guys will put up with it depending on how hot she is.
When it comes down to it, unless you are religious, marriage is primarily a legal contract to ensure equal access to combined resources. So you can love each other and spend your lives together happily if you can just bring yourself to be honest with her without being a dick, and agree not to marry.
Personally, I would rather have her perspective on money than yours. She has a degree from a great school and may one day outearn and outsave you if her priorities change. In my experience a mindset of plentitude leads to a good life more than wealth itself.
webby wrote:
In my experience a mindset of plentitude leads to a good life more than wealth itself.
Plenitude is not gained by throwing money away, but rather by saving and conserving.
Good catch on the spelling. That was a swype error, surprisingly.
I think you missed my point about*mindset*.
My wife had some college debt when we met and wasn’t great with money. I helped her pay it off even before we got married. Frankly, I’ve never thought of our money as my money or her money. Maybe I’m foolish but I think of what is best for us, not what is best for me.
We’ve been married 15 years now and she is much better with money now.
Rupp fan wrote:
Couldn’t your girlfriend easily start a thread that goes something along the lines of:
“I have this amazing boyfriend who I love so much, but he is a huge life nit who is obsessed with hoarding his income so that he can be sorta kinda rich but not really when he is old and his life has passed him by. I have always enjoyed living in the moment and making the most of my youth, but my perspective clearly frustrates and angers him. He is absolutely positive that his way is the only way. How can I talk about this with him?”
This is an interesting thought, but it doesn't really work for a few reasons, assuming the OP gave an accurate account. He wrote that his girlfriend has anxiety and hates being poor, so she isn't really enjoying living in the moment. Also saving to be in a secure position in middle age isn't really trying to be sorta rich. It's a requirement for remaining comfortable if his career goes badly in later life, if he wants to support children and enjoy a reasonable retirement.
Maybe she could ask whether 40% is an excessive saving rate, but it does seem more sensible than building up debt whilst working.
Also if she really did think she was living in the moment, he could counter whether that required an expensive apartment etc.
People enter into and stay in relationships thinking that they can change the other person to fit their needs. This is a flawed expectation.
Unfortunately, finances are the primary source of conflicts with married couples. You've only been living together for 4 months and this has already become, what certainly seems to be, a major concern for you.
You have an excellent long-term perspective for your financial future and she can't see past the end of her nose. Eventually the infatuation stage of your relationship with her will begin to fade and the negative items, such as this, will increasingly bother you.
I have no advice, but can offer a prediction. She won't change and she will become unhappy as you attempt to control the irresponsibility of her financial decision-making.
How this ultimately ends or continues can certainly be your decision.
Money problems is a top reason for divorce. If you don’t want to marry the girl then move on with your life. Unfair for you to lead her on. Money makes us more of what we already are. You seem a little controlling based on your success and fear over losing it.
I’m more of a spender than my wife is but we developed a system and habits to save, spend, and give. It’s something we have to work on and we talk about money every single day. It sounds like it’s a topic that’s off the table for you and your partner. You probably don’t have much respect for her money habits based on your description of her. How are you ever going to work together? I think you need to have an honest conversation about the future this month.
You need to learn to share openly without the fear of upsetting her. It has taken me years and additional marriage counseling to help me improve my ability to communicate my feelings. You need to just blurt it out as kindly as you can and let the chips fall where they may. If you really like her and want to be with her then at least give her a chance to improve her money habits. You’re always going to need to work on it together. Your move and best wishes.
Different perspective wrote:
My wife had some college debt when we met and wasn’t great with money. I helped her pay it off even before we got married. Frankly, I’ve never thought of our money as my money or her money. Maybe I’m foolish but I think of what is best for us, not what is best for me.
We’ve been married 15 years now and she is much better with money now.
I'm in the same boat here. My wife was not great with her money before we got married (poor/no credit, a few small loans, etc.). A lot of it was due to the fact that she just wasn't taught about spending and money. Her parents aren't great with their finances.
This might be the case with the OP's girlfriend. You can't assume that everyone else has the same upbringing and education about spending/money. It is definitely possible to education your significant other or spouse.
And yes, your life becomes a lot easier once you start thinking in terms of "we" and "me" or "she/he". And if you're going into a marriage already thinking/worried about the possible divorce, maybe you shouldn't be getting married?
I would argue communication is the biggest problem here. Not kids, finances, etc. If she gets defensive and won't discuss finances, you have a communication issue in your relationship, and that will make every or any problem, no matter how minor, a threat to the relationship.
I'm amazed at the lack of communication in relationships. Of course, I learned all about that as I went through my first divorce. I used to have horrible communication skills too.
You are a dummy wrote:
one guy's opinion wrote:
As I've now stated multiple times, you haven't clarified if you have made it obvious to her that you could never marry her. Seems like a giant waste of time, for her.
The relationship would only be a waste of time for her without marriage, if her only objective is to screw him out of all of his money. In that case, absolutely don't tell her anything, just run, run, run far away from her.
Thank you. Not sure why this is so difficult for some people to grasp.
go deeper, dude wrote:
so, you're super strategic and smart about your money - that's great. Your partner is not, and you identify that as a problem, so I think you're smart to bring it up sooner than later. And, as you say, she can be a little defensive about the topic.
I think it's worth considering why this is the case. If she is super thin skinned about talking finance, as you say, that really suggests that she also knows it's a problem. But, I think you need to consider why it's happening in the first place.
Consider whether her purchasing patterns are in reaction to something in her past or a reaction to personal insecurities. Often times with this sort of thing - ongoing patterns of self-destructive (-ish) behavior, it's a reaction or compensation related to something else.
I would therefore advise that you bring up the topic in a very open, general way - don't drill down on finance, savings, spending patterns, etc. Your best approach is to make the conversation less about money, and more about personal well being.
Good luck
Thank you. I am not totally sure why she is insecure about it other than the fact she is pretty insecure in general and does feel a need to keep up with the Joneses. She is pretty social and likes having people over fairly often.
When she first brought up her money problems, she was panicking because she didn't realize she had made some really dumb decisions (or rather "miscalculations") that caused her to lock herself into long term contracts she couldn't meet. She said she felt like a "financial idiot." I don't really have any good explanation for it because she IS very intelligent, but she seems to have not even factored in things like taxes when she was calculating how much money she would make with a new job she took... She had to take a second job just to be able to break even each month, and it's a struggle for her just to do that. I even gave her $200 at the time so that she had money to feed herself that month before the paychecks from her new job came in because her monthly bills alone were more than her take home pay. She was going to go into the red each month before she even bought herself food.
I think she hates bringing it up because 1) just thinking about all her debt is anxiety producing and depressing, and 2) she knows that she's struggling much more than most people, and it makes her feel bad. I tried very hard to be positive and supportive when she was telling me these things and said nothing negative to her about her spending, only that "we'll figure this out." When I offered solutions though, she simply said they wouldn't work without giving them any real consideration. It bothered me a lot at the time, and I seriously thought about breaking up with her, but we were long distance at the time also, and I thought if we spent more time together and in person, I could teach her some things. She genuinely does not know or understand a lot about money. She doesn't have a 401k, nor does she know what an index fund is or even that everyone should have at least a 3 month emergency fund or what is meant by that. I feel like I must stress again that she really is very intelligent, just not with money.
Yeah ok...
Girlfriend - "I really love you and am someday want to marry you."
OP - "Lol I can't ever marry someone like you because your finances are a wreck, sorry. Thought you already figured that out."
Let us know how that goes...
hobby jogger deluxe wrote:
UltraDude wrote:
Maybe you should make an appointment with a financial planner for both of you. She needs to understand where she is on the bell curve of savers/spenders. Probably hearing it from you will result in a big blow-up, but maybe it will be more favorably received and taken to heart if it comes from a neutral third party.
This is a pretty good idea. It’s a good way to see if she is less thin skinned when it comes to a 3rd party. It’s like couples therapy but not.
Also whatever you said about her being the best girlfriend so far... have you progressively had better girlfriends? If you’ve been getting better at knowing what kind of person is compatible and you don’t really see a definite future with her maybe you should move on.
Both of these are worth considering, though I don't think hearing she's in the bottom 2% of people in the US is going to be very helpful regardless of who she hears it from. I don't want to make her feel bad. I'd just like her to have less money problems.
For the second point, this is something I've thought about some. I am 30 and have continually improved my life and myself both personally and professionally and fully expect to continue this trend over the next 10 years at least. However, I truly feel like my girlfriend and I are very compatible in pretty much all areas with the possible exception of money. We both genuinely and greatly enjoy spending time together, sharing life with one another. We both felt this way before either of us knew anything about the other's financial situation, and at first, she probably thought I didn't have much money because of how simply I live, so I know she's not gold-digging. I don't think I would break up with her hoping that I'd find someone better. I'd only break up with her if I felt I would be better off without her even if it meant being single (I am totally fine being single, so that's not a huge deal). If someone "better" came along, great, but I wouldn't end the relationship banking on that.
https://dqydj.com/net-worth-by-age-calculator-united-states/Women want to be f*cked and payed for
She wants to get the best deal she can
You don't sound like a millionaire
So she's with you because she hasn't found a millionaire or no millionaire wants anything to do with her
You provide a decent lifestyle
In her mind - it's - what's in it for me
Ask yourself that.
If you get action, but it is coming at the cost of stress,
dump her faster than a space rocket
Different perspective wrote:
My wife had some college debt when we met and wasn’t great with money. I helped her pay it off even before we got married. Frankly, I’ve never thought of our money as my money or her money. Maybe I’m foolish but I think of what is best for us, not what is best for me.
We’ve been married 15 years now and she is much better with money now.
I am in a simular situation. My wife however still is somehow wasting some money but she is increasingly earning good money herself. We have come to an agreement that she puts a fixed amount on her garbage-account every month and a fixed amount to a common savings account controlled by me. Happy wife happy life.
Also agree much on the plentiful stuff more important than financial situation regarding wealth perspective.