Dog People

In my experience some people know it's wrong and will not let it happen again. Other people will not change the behavior. I have had to change my running route twice in the last years due to dog owners threatening me and large, dangerous dogs in the street. This is in the US. I also live in Europe and as a rule all dogs are as behaved as well behaved children. My first time there I asked people why are the dogs so well behaved and the answer was in general "Because there are so many people living in a small place here that are dogs must be trained".

I am calling for a law in the US that would require anyone getting a dog to undergo and pass dog owner education for the owners and obedience school for the dogs.

Terrible film that, 27% on rotten tomatoes.

I'm a dog owner, I absolutely love my dogs, but like with children, don't really like other people's dogs. For what its worth, training a dog to be a well behaved citizen takes regular consistent rules and routines, and dedication from the owner. My perspective is that I am never "finished" training, I continue to go to weekly obedience classes with my dogs until they are too geriatric to have the energy for it. Our relationship is greatly enhanced by this extra time and dedication to training, and its a joy to be in public with them, we never cause any trouble for other people, and generally people are very pleased to meet such pleasant dogs. As far as the owners you mention, and many others I encounter daily, my theory is that too many people treat their dogs as if they are children, and that simply does not work, they do not think like humans, and they are not "fur babies" some are extremely powerful pit bulls. Its a serious problem, especially for dog owners who do put their dogs on leash and train their dog, their dog's life is at risk by these negligent owners with dogs who are far too powerful for their level of training.

As for the solution, I REALLY don't know. I think reputable breeders do a good job at screening homes and requiring obedience training, it was literally in the contract I signed with the breeder of my golden retriever, and I had to send proof of 12 weeks of classes (but I do more out of my own desire to have a well trained dog). Rescues on the other hand, just want to push the dogs out the door, and they don't really care what kind of havoc the owner and dog will cause. I suppose eventually the south with catch up with the north, and shelters will be lacking in dogs, maybe people will have to go to reputable breeders, and these shitty owners won't be approved or will be educated by the obedience classes not to be a jerk.

There is such a thing as the "Canine good Citizen" and Canine Good Citizen advanced, and it is a certificate for the dog, but a lot of what it is about is for both the owners and dogs, and at the end you sign that you the owner will behave just as well, and lists all of the important things to remember. The dog also has to be good in crowds, around other dogs, and being pet by a stranger, etc. Its a pretty good goal for all dogs to achieve.

https://www.akc.org/products-services/training-programs/canine-good-citizen/

Can't read the "owner's fault" anymore.

Dogs ARE powerful, dangerous animals. They don't have human-like intelligence and often don't know that they are doing something wrong when they chase someone or even bit them.

What they are doing is following their INSTINCT - to hunt something that is moving. Just like cats often hunt rabbits or mice/rats (is that also the cat's owner's fault?).

What we need is - law that dogs need to be leashed in any public area AND off-leash areas that are large and clearly marked as such. Bam, any accidents/bites are suddenly impossible (unless dogs attack their own families/owners), joggers don't have to worry or even stop their runs anymore and everyone lives in peace.

Expecting that every human has whatever IQ is required (maybe 90 or so) to perfectly control a dog is absurd. A law that makes it independent of the owner's IQ / handling skills that protects everyone is needed, and a leash-policy would be such one.

Want to hear something very coincidental? I just went for a run today and had a dog incident. I large dog ran from a yard and jump on my leg! I yelled. The owner came out and I said "It's against the law!". He just stood there. So I said it again. He just stood there. But then he said j=he was sorry and I say "That's fine; many people don't know".

All dogs can be trained and it must not be that difficult. I live in Europe part of the year and ALL dogs are so well behaved. Owners take them to restaurants! The dogs do not even so much as sniff or even look at me. So what it is is there is a culture of poor dog training in the US. That's the only way I can explain it.

A small, but sizable portion of the general public are a-holes. A small, but sizable portion of the general public are complete morons.

These people having dogs simply create interactions with others where it is demonstrated that they are a-holes, morons, etc.

Just carry around laxative laden dog biscuits. It won't change the owners behavior, but it might make you feel good knowing their dog is sh!ting all over their house later that day.

I lived in Europe with my dog last year for about 8 months, she had no issues going on trains, buses, hanging out in stations, living in an apartment, walking around the airport (she flew cargo, as she is not a service dog, even though she is just as well trained, I would never cheat the system). But honestly we were in Sweden and there was a fair number of dogs that would bark back at us just because there was another dog. They are however very strict about leashes and pretty much every park requires one. People who have ill behaved dogs ALWAYS kept them on the leash, and also almost every dog is intact in sweden, which might be why some bark at the presence of other dogs. But regardless, the standards are much higher, especially if you compare to places like the south east. Where I am from I would say its about the same, but dogs have much wider access in Sweden to public areas. (access for dogs in Sweden is less than the rest of Europe, because they are very sensitive to people with allergies.)

Dogs in Europe do bark at other dogs but you will never see a dog racing from a yard into the street to chase a runner, bicyclist or walker! Most Europeans live in highly densely populated areas and over the centuries they have developed a high respect for the privacy of individuals. In the US we're a bunch of heathens!

cghmf wrote:

All dogs can be trained and it must not be that difficult. I live in Europe part of the year and ALL dogs are so well behaved. Owners take them to restaurants! The dogs do not even so much as sniff or even look at me. So what it is is there is a culture of poor dog training in the US. That's the only way I can explain it.

Good job, letsrun. We made it all the way to 5 replies before the anti-USA or "racist" comment. We are improving!

cghmf - you're a doosh. People take their dogs to restaurants in the US too, nitwit. And yeah, I've been to Europe, dogs there are just like here. Some are aggressive and poorly managed, some are well behaved, just like the US.

You doosh.

cghmf wrote:

Dogs in Europe do bark at other dogs but you will never see a dog racing from a yard into the street to chase a runner, bicyclist or walker! Most Europeans live in highly densely populated areas and over the centuries they have developed a high respect for the privacy of individuals. In the US we're a bunch of heathens!

STFU doosh. You self loathing doosh.

Which restaurants in the US allow dogs? I'm not talking about service dogs.

The more important question is why are you in the middle of so many provblems?

Oh man, dog people.

My local elementary school's playground has a large and prominent "NO DOGS" (all caps) sign posted on its fence in multiple locations, yet I've seen people with their dogs in the playground, off-leash no less, numerous times in the few months we've lived in the neighborhood. The signs are so can't-miss that I've no doubt these people are simply ignoring them.

It also bugs my a$$ when owners don't pull their dogs to the same side they when walking them on-leash on, say, a trail or sidewalk I either have to move way aside to skirt the dog, jump its leash, or risk my calves getting guillotined. The last of these happened to my wife just this New Years Day on a hike and left a sizeable gash. We'd stopped and stared back at the owners after they passed us without breaking stride let alone apologizing and, verbatim, the guy shouts back, "Happy New Year, go f*ck yourselves." We stood there dumbfounded.

Just yesterday I was in a coffee shop and a couple who were sitting a table over had brought their large Collie inside with them. No leash. Who knows how long they'd been sitting there. By the time I was in there the poor dog was antsy and walking around all the neighboring tables and people's chairs and, I'm sure, annoying everyone sitting nearby. At one point I noticed one of the owners was cleaning up a spill, just with a napkin mind you, of some type of liquid from the floor. It wasn't coffee and there wasn't a water cup in sight, so I can only imagine what the liquid was.

Far worse in India. Here we carry sticks and rocks because the street dogs here are more closely related to wild jackals and coyotes than to American domestic dogs. Joggers carry long bamboo poles when they run to keep the dogs at a distance. Some even attack people on sight. It's against the law to do anything against the dogs because of national laws and Hindu taboos against violence, so when throw rocks at dogs, we can't let people see us do it.

You have to change all that in India! Stray dogs are a health concerns for disease, bite and accident. You also need laws that allow for protecting oneself against these dangerous animals. In addition make it easier for people to import, export and conduct business. Come into the 21st century!

I can also image what that liquid was. All dogs are disgusting and I know I said above about laws I really think they should ALL be banned forever. The little ones? My friends sister was going to a formal event, all dressed up and drove me and some of my friends over to another friends house. This friend owns one of those tiny dogs full of energy. Real cute. My friend's sister opens the car door and the little dog runs through the muddy yard on to her lap and all around the car. Mud everywhere! My friends sister was so upset. She had dog paw prints all over her expensive white dress. Really cute, huh?

Are more advanced than American dogs. Seems silly at first, but delve deeper and one can see how an European dog is raised by those who value animals and life in general more than American s.

cghmf wrote:

You have to change all that in India! Stray dogs are a health concerns for disease, bite and accident. You also need laws that allow for protecting oneself against these dangerous animals. In addition make it easier for people to import, export and conduct business. Come into the 21st century!

Yes we all hate it here. But when I go to America I also get harassed by dogs. No escaping from them anywhere.

It's not that way in Western Europe! Well behaved dogs are the rule there. If everyone just did a little bit towards making it better it would be. I do my part and very firmly let irresponsible dog owners know. . I really dislike though when I alienate neighbors because they can't understand why it's wrong to let their dogs run wild. Dogs go to the bathroom on my mom's flowers. She worked hours on them and at a financial cost. Why can't dog owners understand that it gets people mad? "It's just a dog" they say. Good grief! Now let's force them to go to class or no dog!