Ritz - 1:01:27

ClonedDuck wrote:

Just a idea ... wrote:

Here's a crazy idea, but maybe if Ritz would slow down on his easy runs. He wouldn't be so injury prone, need to do so much rehab work, be able to do more weekly volume and run faster. I remember a podcast with him on leading up to Boston last year. Talking about how he'll only do some workouts with Shadrack Biwott. As his easy mileage, is really easy. To paraphrase Ritz from that podcast, he does a lot more mileage at a easy pace. Guess which one pulled out of Boston and which one got third.

My thinking exactly.. after seeing that week it is no wonder to me at all why he has always been injured

6:30 pace for a guy who can run 4:50 pace for a marathon is not fast.

Kakzjxnxb wrote:

ClonedDuck wrote:

My thinking exactly.. after seeing that week it is no wonder to me at all why he has always been injured

6:30 pace for a guy who can run 4:50 pace for a marathon is not fast.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

This is Ritz’s 2nd marathon build up under the Hansons. He got hurt a week out in his first one but claimed he was in the best shape of his life. I am sure that they have made changes for this go around. I have not given up on Ritz because in my mind he has only been hurt once under the Hansons.

Have you guys not seen Callum Hawkins's training?

Here's an actual training week-

Mon- 12 miles, 5:47/mi

Tue- 12 miles, 5:21/mi

Wed- 14 miles, 5:36/mi

Thu- 3 mi warm-up, 6:22/mi + 10 miles, 4:54/mi, 3 mi cool-down 7:02/mi

Fri- 10 miles, 5:36/mi

Sat - 12 miles, 5:39/mi

Sun- 20 miles, 5:19/mi

Total - 96 miles

I don't think you guys understand world class running. Once you get going the efficiency skyrockets and is just work.

Have you guys not seen Takayuki Inubushi training leading up to his 2:06:57 marathon(almost a minute faster than Ritz marathon PB):

July 1 morning 40’+12’ jog AM 12 laps x 3k (2:12’58″) PM 64’ jog: total volume 65 kilometers

July 2 morning Rest Ball game 60’ jog : total volume 12 kilometers

July 3 morning Rest AM 190’ jog PM 55’ jog : total volume 50 kilometers

July 4 morning 60’ jog AM 10 x 1k in 3’00″~2’45″ (1’R) — total volume 31 kilometers

July 5 AM 85’ jog PM 60’ jog : total volume 29 kilometers

July 6 AM 55’ jog PM 60’ jog : total volume 23 kilometers

July 7 AM Jog w/ others PM 50’ jog + (10×300) x 2 (12’41″/12’33″) : total volume 37 kilometers

http://bobhodge.us/running-logs/takayuki-inubushi/

ljlk wrote:

Have you guys not seen Callum Hawkins's training?

Here's an actual training week-

Mon- 12 miles, 5:47/mi

Tue- 12 miles, 5:21/mi

Wed- 14 miles, 5:36/mi

Thu- 3 mi warm-up, 6:22/mi + 10 miles, 4:54/mi, 3 mi cool-down 7:02/mi

Fri- 10 miles, 5:36/mi

Sat - 12 miles, 5:39/mi

Sun- 20 miles, 5:19/mi

Total - 96 miles

I don't think you guys understand world class running. Once you get going the efficiency skyrockets and is just work.

The key to that is---let's see how long he lasts;)

I know several elite runners that run 7:30 on their easy runs which in turn allows their bodies to fully recover from the hard efforts. Those 'easy' runs for Callum are too fast. Over time, he won't last running that pace for easy runs.

Reminds of Todd Williams.

Kakzjxnxb wrote:

ClonedDuck wrote:

My thinking exactly.. after seeing that week it is no wonder to me at all why he has always been injured

6:30 pace for a guy who can run 4:50 pace for a marathon is not fast.

Of course it's not fast. But it still requires more loading and requirement on the body than a slower pace. If you have an individual that has been repeatedly injured over the years, their easy pace is probably the first spot to look.

I thought I remember'd reading that Meb did the bulk of his easy miles right around 6:00, and in fact his coach commented that he could run that pace [more or less] forever...

Reminds me of this.... wrote:

Neil Young wrote:

The key to that is---let's see how long he lasts;)

I know several elite runners that run 7:30 on their easy runs which in turn allows their bodies to fully recover from the hard efforts. Those 'easy' runs for Callum are too fast. Over time, he won't last running that pace for easy runs.

Reminds of Todd Williams.

well,, wrote:

He has said in interviews that he was severely overtrained. He basically hammered every single mile he ran during the buildup.

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9187674&page=1

Over time it will get most runners. Burnout, fatigue, injuries, etc... The day of not taking your easy days easy are nearing an end. After really hard workouts, the body needs to recover and rebuild. I've dealt with many elite athletes that actually learned to take a day or two off. They've always returned to me by saying how much better they felt during hard workouts and races by resting more. It works:)

As Alberto has quoted from Jack London, and I believe -

"I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot."

Kudos to Callum Hawkins and thank you, Mr. No-Name Accomplished Nothing of Note In Running

I'd rather run good races and train intelligently. Than always being injured and pulling out of races due to injury.

just because you can wrote:

Kakzjxnxb wrote:

6:30 pace for a guy who can run 4:50 pace for a marathon is not fast.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Come on. If 23 miles at 6:07 pace is easy for Jordan Hasay, then imagine how much of a jogfest 6:30 pace is for Ritz

Hardloper wrote:

just because you can wrote:

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Come on. If 23 miles at 6:07 pace is easy for Jordan Hasay, then imagine how much of a jogfest 6:30 pace is for Ritz

For Hasay, 23 miles at a 6:07 is a marathon specific workout. I'm not against long marathon specific tempo runs. I'm against hammering every run and ending up injured.

Ritz is scheduled to race this Saturday, March 2, in Atlanta--8 miler on part of the trials course.

https://www.atlantatrackclub.org/news/more-than-100-olympic-hopefuls-to-run-road-to-gold

Yeah no... wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Come on. If 23 miles at 6:07 pace is easy for Jordan Hasay, then imagine how much of a jogfest 6:30 pace is for Ritz

For Hasay, 23 miles at a 6:07 is a marathon specific workout. I'm not against long marathon specific tempo runs. I'm against hammering every run and ending up injured.

It's not a 'long tempo run.' Hasay called it an easy 23 miler.

Hardloper wrote:

Yeah no... wrote:

For Hasay, 23 miles at a 6:07 is a marathon specific workout. I'm not against long marathon specific tempo runs. I'm against hammering every run and ending up injured.

It's not a 'long tempo run.' Hasay called it an easy 23 miler.

Canova marathon specific long runs are about 90%-95% of marathon pace. 90% of 5:20 pace(pace of her marathon PB) is 5:56 pace. 6:07 pace is 87% of her marathon PB. Assuming she's not in 2:20 shape yet, or she included a few miles easy as a warm up/cool down. She is within that zone.

We know that Ritz has been injured repeatedly throughout his career since Colorado. So, obviously, he has needed to reconsider all aspects of his training to avoid those recurrences. He gets in very good shape fast but is no doubt trying to get into personal record shape and overdoes or fails to do preventive exercises.

Hasay got injured soon after that 23M at 6:07 pace, right?

Yeah no.... wrote:

Canova marathon specific long runs are about 90%-95% of marathon pace. 90% of 5:20 pace(pace of her marathon PB) is 5:56 pace. 6:07 pace is 87% of her marathon PB. Assuming she's not in 2:20 shape yet, or she included a few miles easy as a warm up/cool down. She is within that zone.

That's nice but it's still not a 'long tempo,' it's a a self-described easy long run, and more to the point if 6:07 pace is easy for Hasay then 6:30 pace is a slogfest for Ritzenhein. Not "hammering" as you said