The main argument for doping accusations is that IAAF surveys have shown that nearly one in two athletes is doping at championship level. Your sport is dirty.
The main argument for doping accusations is that IAAF surveys have shown that nearly one in two athletes is doping at championship level. Your sport is dirty.
Seems a bit suspicious wrote:
She just seems a bit suspicious.
I agree.
no-sub-2 wrote:
Race me at distance a bit shorter and find out.
ooooh. We have a 1:31 600 guy here folks!
Let me point out, that your argument is not an argument for suspecting every athlete of doping--after all, its not 2 of 2. Its 1 of 2.
It is an argument for suspecting every athlete who tests positive, even if its just "tainted meat" Its also an argument for suspecting any athlete that comes out of nowhere, is associated with a coach who has been accused of doping previous athletes, or who has incredible improvements, or who runs unheard of times.
All I'm asking for, especially in Houlihan's case, is a little more than "because the sport has dopers, then we accuse everyone of doping if they run well, even if they have run well since they were 8 years old and have no other indications of doping. "
If any of the things I list above happen with Houlihan, I'll admit I was wrong. But until then, I'm saying credit her achievements.
lol all up in there wrote:
no-sub-2 wrote:
Race me at distance a bit shorter and find out.
ooooh. We have a 1:31 600 guy here folks!
I did not start this thread. You and your eleven friends or your twelve personalities continue to post on letsrun that Houlian is a secret sub-2 800m runner. You offer no proof, but you and your twelve personalities or you and your eleven friends continue to state the same thing. Beating you means nothing to me unless, if I win I get a guarantee you will stop posting this nonsense. Houlihan has W.C. this year to prove herself. We will know soon. It is unnecessary to state she is a sub-2 800m runner because it is not true.
Armstronglivs wrote:
The main argument for doping accusations is that IAAF surveys have shown that nearly one in two athletes is doping at championship level. Your sport is dirty.
You are a very stupid person.
In a Canter wrote:
She just galloped past Huddle.
Why the racism?
sick of unfounded doping accusations wrote:
I really get tired of the "they're all doping" theme on Let's Run. Houlihan has run one U.S. record time, but in general are her times out of this world? No. Did she come out of nowhere? No. She's been a standout runner since high school and through college. Plus, is she even the fastest in the world at any distance? No.
There are a lot of U.S. runners I suspect of doping. But Houlihan isn't one of them. In order for doping accusations to be credible, you either have to have a positive test (that would be, of course, "disputed"), a lot of suspicious coaches or contacts, incredible improvements, or some unbelievable times. Does Houlihan have any of these? Not that I know. Until she does, I think we owe it to her to stop the "Houlihan is doping" threads which appear every time she wins, because as she has said, its pretty demeaning of her achievements.
I agree 100%. She is a stud who always had the talent. Has been healthy, consistent and more dedicated to her craft since graduating from college. This is not a surprise at all.
sick of unfounded doping accusations wrote:
Let me point out, that your argument is not an argument for suspecting every athlete of doping--after all, its not 2 of 2. Its 1 of 2.
It is an argument for suspecting every athlete who tests positive, even if its just "tainted meat" Its also an argument for suspecting any athlete that comes out of nowhere, is associated with a coach who has been accused of doping previous athletes, or who has incredible improvements, or who runs unheard of times.
All I'm asking for, especially in Houlihan's case, is a little more than "because the sport has dopers, then we accuse everyone of doping if they run well, even if they have run well since they were 8 years old and have no other indications of doping. "
If any of the things I list above happen with Houlihan, I'll admit I was wrong. But until then, I'm saying credit her achievements.
If it was "2 out of 2" that surveys show are doping then there are no "grounds for suspicion" at all - on those figures there is no doubt that all at that level are doping. That is hardly "suspicious". But as the IAAF surveys show that nearly 1 in 2 championship-level athletes is doping then it follows all are "suspicious" - it's a mere flip of the coin as to who is or isn't doping. That's a 50% chance of being right . I might guess that Houlihan (or any other top athlete) is doping and have a 50% chance of being right. Of any two athletes you choose, which one is the doper and which is clean? (Or - given the size of the class sample - both may be dirty, or both clean. It is a statistical game. But no athlete can be confidently proclaimed clean.) You will have to work very hard to argue convincingly that athlete X as distinct from athlete Y is clean. It's a fairly safe presumption that it requires some form of doping to be successful at the elite level - or the rate of doping - 1 of 2 - would not be so high.
Pollywac wrote:
In a Canter wrote:
She just galloped past Huddle.
Why the racism?
Good thing she is white, or else we would have the SJW's on this thread crying about racism.
no sub-2 wrote:
lol all up in there wrote:
ooooh. We have a 1:31 600 guy here folks!
I did not start this thread. You and your eleven friends or your twelve personalities continue to post on letsrun that Houlian is a secret sub-2 800m runner. You offer no proof, but you and your twelve personalities or you and your eleven friends continue to state the same thing. Beating you means nothing to me unless, if I win I get a guarantee you will stop posting this nonsense. Houlihan has W.C. this year to prove herself. We will know soon. It is unnecessary to state she is a sub-2 800m runner because it is not true.
I understand you're probably trolling, but;
I would bet anything that Houlihan, when in her PR 1500m shape and is winning Diamond League 800s, could easily break 2 in the 800m. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
distancequeen wrote:
I want to see houlihan vs ajee in the 800.
Yep.
Ajee would be a pretty sizeable favorite, but I still really want to see it. I wouldn't be surprised if Shelby were to beat any of the other USA 800m runners though.
Would be sweet to see Shelby hop into at least one Diamond League 800 this summer to see how she does against all the hotshots. Hopefully either way she races some 800 this year so we can see what she's capable of at least.
ThatAverageRunner wrote:
no sub-2 wrote:
I did not start this thread. You and your eleven friends or your twelve personalities continue to post on letsrun that Houlian is a secret sub-2 800m runner. You offer no proof, but you and your twelve personalities or you and your eleven friends continue to state the same thing. Beating you means nothing to me unless, if I win I get a guarantee you will stop posting this nonsense. Houlihan has W.C. this year to prove herself. We will know soon. It is unnecessary to state she is a sub-2 800m runner because it is not true.
I understand you're probably trolling, but;
I would bet anything that Houlihan, when in her PR 1500m shape and is winning Diamond League 800s, could easily break 2 in the 800m. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
You are either one of the twelve personalities or one of the twelve people stating Houlihan can race sub-2. She set her 400m PB almost eight years ago, 55.52. Houlihan's 800m PB of 2:01.12 is about right for someone with her 400m PB. [I feel like a broken record. I stated all this about six or ten months ago.] All twelve of you stating Houlihan is a sub-2 800m runner offer only Houlihan's kick. At least say a friend saw her do a 600m TT in 1:27.5. Clean 1500m/5000m runners do not get faster at 400/800 in their mid-twenties. I have never accused her of not being clean. Are you accusing Houlihan of not being clean?
And I'm not one of the 12.
youranidiot wrote:
And I am one of the 12.
Have noticed I refer to no one using less than pleasant language? One of twelve, you do not like me stating Houlihan cannot break 2 minutes for 800m sans PED's and that makes me an idiot? Interesting.
no sub-2 wrote:
Clean 1500m/5000m runners do not get faster at 400/800 in their mid-twenties.
Six American woman besides Houlihan have run a sub 4:00 1500. Every one of them ran their fastest 800 in her mid-twenties or later: Willard (25), Simpson (26), Slaney (27), and Wurth-Thomas (29), Favor-Hamilton (31) and Rowbury (31).
Obviously, not all of them were 1500/5000 runners. But since Slaney and Rowbury, held both the 1500 and 5000 records, they obvious count. Yet both got faster in their mid 20s.
The argument is not mainly that she has a very fast finish (not only kick on the last 100, but last lap or more).
But it's simple statistics that most female 3:57 1500m runners have run 800m sub 2. I am not looking up all the Russians and Chinese but most of them ran sub 2 (many of them testo-powered 1:55 or around that).
Simpson and the Turkish convicted doper Ayhan ran around 2:00.6, so these are two fast ones who did not break 2 min. but I'd say that with more 800m races they would very probably have run sub 2 as well.
The claim also was not that Houlihan would run 1:55 (world class), but 1:59 off her 1500m training. Probably faster IF she focussed on that distance.
We know for a fact that Ajee Wilson is a doper, I wouldn't be surprised if Houlihan is doping too.
Anyone who believes that Ajee ‘tainted beef’ Wilson or Shelby Houlihan is clean is as delusional as anyone who believe Tom Brady isn’t doped up to his gills
One out of one - wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
The main argument for doping accusations is that IAAF surveys have shown that nearly one in two athletes is doping at championship level. Your sport is dirty.
You are a very stupid person.
The Guardian, 29 August, 2017
"The research, based on anonymous surveys carried out at two elite athletics competitions in 2011, found that up to 57% of competitors admitted doping in the previous 12 months, a figure far surpassing the 1-2% identified by blood and urine tests carried out by the World Anti-Doping Agency (Wada), and higher even than the 14% prevalence estimated from the athlete biological passport."
RIP: D3 All-American Frank Csorba - who ran 13:56 in March - dead
RENATO can you talk about the preparation of Emile Cairess 2:06
Great interview with Steve Cram - says Jakob has no chance of WRs this year
Hats off to my dad. He just ran a 1:42 Half Marathon and turns 75 in 2 months!
2024 College Track & Field Open Coaching Positions Discussion
Running for Bowerman Track Club used to be cool now its embarrassing