It's weird to see the reaction to this.
I see a lot of people saying that the Mavs did great. Some CBS guy rated them an A+.
But on ESPN+, a guy gave the Mavs a C-.
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/25894332/porzingis-trade-grades-do-mavs-knicks-win-deal
The Mavs won the trade, provided they can re-sign PorzinGod. Not only did they acquire KP, they got Hardaway, who is a rock solid 2 and Burke, who is a solid rotation player in his 20s. They unloaded Smith, who has great talent but is kind of a head case and is not needed now that they have Donkic. Burke shoots better than Smith so he's a better fit with a point forward.
The one downside I see for the Macs is that their frontcourt will probably be average defensively. Typically you want to pair a Dirk/KP type with a defense-oriented big like Chandler.
As for the Knicks, they got Smith, a mercurial shoot first 1, traded most of their best players and put themselves in position to sign multiple big name free agents in the off season. Kawhi, Durant and Klay will be out there and A.D and Kyrie are bother likely looking for new places to play. If the Knicks were competently managed, this would be a great set-up, but they're not so they will screw it up somehow. They better hope they luck up and get Zion in the draft.
*Mavs*
*both looking*
DeAndre Jordan has an expiring contract, the Knicks wanted Dennis Smith, Jr. ever since cashiering Phil Jackson, the two no.1 draft picks to the Knicks are also useful but they are not likely to be high picks. Courtney Lee is a fill-in. I think Trey Burke might be also in the deal to make it work for the value of the players going each direction. Porzingis is coming off of serious knee surgery. So, basically, the Mavericks get a high-ceiling 7'3" 23 year old who averaged 22.7ppg/7rpg/2.4 bpg, shot almost 40% from 3, nearly 80% ft, and around 44% from the line, while the Knicks get Dennis Smith, Jr. (just had a triple double but otherwise it was a down year for him, not fitting in with Doncic, or not being willing to do so) and salary cap space, plus who knows what value in the number 1 picks. It is possible that they will pick up two max players this summer; it is also possible that they'll know what to do with the draft picks and get good players; and it is possible that Dennis Smith will become the star people hoped. But Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, and Kawi Lenard all know that Dolan is a terrible owner and the franchise totally dysfunctional. They see how the team alienated Porzingis, like Kanter. It'd be a mistake for them to sign there. If all those things go right for them, then it looks very good. But then if the Knicks had done whatever it took to dump salary while keeping Porzingis, then there would be a reason for stars to come play in New York. Kanter's $22M salary might have been taken off the books if the Knicks were willing to pony up the cash to pay a lot of it. There were other ways of freeing salary than losing Porzingis, who would have become happy if he saw the team doing something to keep him. He was a restricted free agent, so they could have re-signed him. If Porzingis does come back 100%, then Dallas is going to be a solid playoff team next year, because both he and Doncic are special talents. There are pretty many good centers in the league. They will need to bring someone in for defense and rebounding. Porzingis doesn't rebound well at present and they need a second shot blocker. Dallas wins the deal easily, unless everything goes right for the Knicks, which I don't expect to happen until Dolan is gone.
As for Hardaway, his father was great, but he's a complementary player at best who shoots a low percentage and doesn't do much else.
zxcvzxcv wrote:
DeAndre Jordan has an expiring contract, the Knicks wanted Dennis Smith, Jr. ever since cashiering Phil Jackson, the two no.1 draft picks to the Knicks are also useful but they are not likely to be high picks. Courtney Lee is a fill-in. I think Trey Burke might be also in the deal to make it work for the value of the players going each direction. Porzingis is coming off of serious knee surgery. So, basically, the Mavericks get a high-ceiling 7'3" 23 year old who averaged 22.7ppg/7rpg/2.4 bpg, shot almost 40% from 3, nearly 80% ft, and around 44% from the line, while the Knicks get Dennis Smith, Jr. (just had a triple double but otherwise it was a down year for him, not fitting in with Doncic, or not being willing to do so) and salary cap space, plus who knows what value in the number 1 picks. It is possible that they will pick up two max players this summer; it is also possible that they'll know what to do with the draft picks and get good players; and it is possible that Dennis Smith will become the star people hoped. But Kyrie Irving, Kevin Durant, and Kawi Lenard all know that Dolan is a terrible owner and the franchise totally dysfunctional. They see how the team alienated Porzingis, like Kanter. It'd be a mistake for them to sign there. If all those things go right for them, then it looks very good. But then if the Knicks had done whatever it took to dump salary while keeping Porzingis, then there would be a reason for stars to come play in New York. Kanter's $22M salary might have been taken off the books if the Knicks were willing to pony up the cash to pay a lot of it. There were other ways of freeing salary than losing Porzingis, who would have become happy if he saw the team doing something to keep him. He was a restricted free agent, so they could have re-signed him. If Porzingis does come back 100%, then Dallas is going to be a solid playoff team next year, because both he and Doncic are special talents. There are pretty many good centers in the league. They will need to bring someone in for defense and rebounding. Porzingis doesn't rebound well at present and they need a second shot blocker. Dallas wins the deal easily, unless everything goes right for the Knicks, which I don't expect to happen until Dolan is gone.
agree-Mavs won this-Knicks always find a way to f-ck things up and so long as Dolan is there the franchise will remain a doormat-at least the '90s Pat Riley/Van Gundy Knicks had heart and would always be a tough out in the playoffs...
zxcvzxcv wrote:
As for Hardaway, his father was great, but he's a complementary player at best who shoots a low percentage and doesn't do much else.
Hardaway is definitely a complementary player. I like the fact that he brought his lunch pail every day for such a terrible team. I didn't, however, realize that he's shooting 39%. Oy ve.
You make some good points about the weaknesses in PorzinGod's game. He's a very good player, but because of his poor rebounding and only adequate defensive presence, I'd put him in the second tier of top young bigs, with Embiid, Giannis, Jokic, Vucavic and Towns well ahead of him. As he comes back from injury and develops, it will be interesting to see if he joins that upper tier or finds a home with the likes of Ayton, Siakem and Sabonis.
rojo wrote:
It's weird to see the reaction to this.
I see a lot of people saying that the Mavs did great. Some CBS guy rated them an A+.
But on ESPN+, a guy gave the Mavs a C-.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kristaps-porzingis-trade-grades-mavericks-hit-a-grand-slam-knicks-situation-more-complicated/http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/25894332/porzingis-trade-grades-do-mavs-knicks-win-deal
The real issue for Dallas is that KP maybe injury prone. I would be very wary of a guy who plays the way he does at his size.
This trade basically boils down to Porzingis for Smith + 2 future #1 draft picks. The rest is fluff and cap matching.
Dallas wins trade of Porzingis stays healthy and he and Doncic go on a 10 year run as reincarnation of Nash and Nowicki.
Knicks win trade if they land some top free agents for next year - say Durant and Irving, and the draft picks work out - both the future ones from this trade - and next year's top 5 pick.
The poster above really hits on the issue with the Knicks (and some other teams) in how poorly they communicate with their $20 million employees). The organisation brings in guys like Noah, Rose, Kanter (Burke, Hardaway) and soon to be Ntilikina and then doesn't communicate to them about their role, so they only hear about their situation form the media. If I'm managing a McDonald's, I'll at least communicate to employees and be aware that morale is important. These guys are expensive employees and deserve to know what's happening. It does no good to treat them poorly, as with guaranteed contracts, you still have to pay them $millions anyway. Porzingis issues with management were about communication, and how players were treated - not about future basketball strategy.
So now Porzingis goes to a team with a healthy organisation, and experience with international players.
The Knicks will probably screw it up with the wrong free agents, bad draft choices and dysfunctional communication.
One side note - Burke and Hardaway are both only 26 and actually can fit in well in Dallas, if Mavs are willing to pay them and keep them.
Latest quote today from Kyrie is encouraging for Knicks. He's not exactly standing by his pre-season statement of allegiance to the Celtics.
"Ask me July 1,” Irving said, when asked if his mindset had shifted since his October proclamation. “I’m just going to do what’s best for me. . . I spent the last eight years trying to do what everybody else wanted me to do in terms of making my decisions and trying to validate through the media, through other personnel, managers, anybody in this business,” Irving said. “And I don’t owe anybody s–t.”
And there has been somewhat supported speculation about Durant's interest in NYK.
https://nypost.com/2019/02/01/kyrie-irving-just-gave-knicks-fans-the-hope-they-were-waiting-for/
I'll admit I don't follow regular season NBA but can someone tell me why anyone would want Kyrie Irving.
He was in Cleveland and hated Lebron. Now he is with Boston. I thought they were supposed to have a chance to win it all - and yt hie' snot happy either either?
What exactly is he complaining about?
This is the guy who thinks the earth is flat right? Why would any team want someone who seems to a) be unhappy no matter what and b) doesn't seem to bright.
Waitlisted at Cornell and Princeton, settled for Duke. Went pro after 1 year, did not complete the math and science requirement.
The Knicks are trying to clear cap space for a run at free agents this summer, so until we see who they sign with that money, can't really say who "won" the trade. It wasn't really about the players that got exchanged.
rojo wrote:
I'll admit I don't follow regular season NBA but can someone tell me why anyone would want Kyrie Irving.
He was in Cleveland and hated Lebron. Now he is with Boston. I thought they were supposed to have a chance to win it all - and yt hie' snot happy either either?
What exactly is he complaining about?
This is the guy who thinks the earth is flat right? Why would any team want someone who seems to a) be unhappy no matter what and b) doesn't seem to bright.
Because he's one of the best of if not the best scoring point guard in the NBA. He didn't hate Lebron personally, he was young and didn't want to play second fiddle to a superstar. It's not easy to play with Lebron because he's so dominant on the court and off. Irving recently called Lebron to apologize for his behavior when he was young. Don't remember him expressing being unhappy in Boston. He's a free agent this summer which is a big deal because he's a free agent in the prime of his career. Don't equate not publicly stating he's going to resign with Boston with being "unhappy." This opportunity is not going to come again for him so it would be crazy not explore free agency.
I'm glad we can all come together and agree that the Knicks have once again screwed up and are going to continue to find ways to screw up.
Lets look at the clear Pros for each side:
Knicks: Cleared cap space to chase max free agent x 2. Dennis Smith Jr is legit and the Knickes have liked him since they didn't draft him.
Mavs: ???
That's why the Knicks have won this trade as of now.
Is the unicorn healthy? Will he ever be? Will Tim Jr. improve his PER when he's not on a team that stinks like week old fish? Maybe, maybe not.
If we're looking at this from a in the future, which is what we should be looking at because neither team is doing anything this season, then the Mavs won because they have the most up-side.
rojo wrote:
b) doesn't seem to bright.
If you stuff like this on purpose...
https://i.imgur.com/hC5rPqS.gifDavid S wrote:
I'm glad we can all come together and agree that the Knicks have once again screwed up and are going to continue to find ways to screw up.
Finally LR is in agreement!
around 44% from the field, not the line.
Just curious, sometimes you see that a trade was voided because "player failed physical" or similar language. What kind of physical can Dallas give an injured Porzingas that tells them he will be ready to play for them some day? And what if Porzingas aggravates his injury during such a physical?
