What say you to military musicians (many of whom I have been personally trained by) who audition for military music ensembles, go through boot camp (been told they get given an easier time than standard recruits), never formally "serve" in combat, and live a fairly well off life playing music for military members across the country/world. Is this not a waste of taxpayer dollars as well? What about military researchers, doctors, etc. who are stationed in the U.S and don't see combat?
People will find USXC boring no matter whether or not there are a bunch of skinny white dudes or black dudes running around. And you have demonstrated why; you've made a generalization about them instead of saying: "this is Shadrack Kipchichir, he's finished 2nd in the US 10k trials at least twice, has two (or three? I forget) road titles, next to him is Scott Fauble who finished 2nd at the Falmouth road race, 7th at the NYC marathon," much like the commentary will hopefully sound. You're doing just as much to make people disinterested in your scenario as you claim the athletes who are already there will.
He's implicitly biased against all runners. Seeing them as animals rather than humans. Shameful.
I get that you, as a founder, are not going to respond to the critique of overall culture on here. You had to dig back six/seven months ago to find another use of the word stable. That shows that it's not super often thrown out there. No that is not racist but Gault ALWAYS let's us know that ADP athletes were not born in the US. That is racist. And now he typed out stable to refer to them which isn't a word used that often.
Why do you continue to make a distinction that ADP athletes were not born here? What is the added value of that other than raising white runners? Why do you include it in every article you put out? Are staff trained on race and gender? When, if ever was your last training (done internally and by an outside group)? Will you agree to send your staff to an Equity and Inclusion Training? I would like you to focus on these questions instead of finding one time you used stable in a fine manner. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem in the way you throw around American and non American born.
You are incorrect. I am the one who wrote that line in this preview. Why did I do it? Because it's relevant.
If everyone on Team USA was born in Texas or New Hampshire, I'd mention that to. We point out what is interesting about running - all the time.
It blows my mind that you think I need inclusion training when I'm basically the only journalist in the entire country that makes it a point to go to World Cross country no matter where it is held so I can celebrate the greatness of almost exclusively black runners.
Do you think it's not worth mentioning that all but 1 of the top 35 people at 2017 world xc were born in Africa? When Mugsy Bogues was in the NBA, people talked about his height all the time as it was unusual. Should they not have done that?
Here's my question. Why does it bother if you if we point out the place of birth or even race of a runner?
The difference is that an AMERICAN who serves in the military music ensemble is an AMERICAN. We don't need to pay any Kenyan to be in the military music ensemble. We certainly didn't need to pay a Kenyan to run for the Army. These Kenyans only did it for one reason: to make money on the professional running circuit. Why in the fux do we need to pay Kenyans to run for the USA!!!???!!!
I am trained in this field. There are two elements to the description that may be examined for potential legal transgressions.
Firstly, the use of the word ‘stable’. I have definitely read it on here being used to describe other groups of athletes coached by one coach, from more varied backgrounds. But I tend to agree with you that using the word to describe a group of athletes because of their race or ethnic background is directly discriminatory. It depends on whether the other descriptors sufficiently qualify so as to remove it from being racist in tone, or perhaps make it worse. If it refers to a group of athletes in one training group or coached by one group, I cannot agree that it is racist, even indirectly, because it is a term in common usage to refer to other athletes in similar training groups.
The second descriptor you complain of are the words ‘Kenyan born”. There is absolutely nothing wrong with referring to which country people are born in. We really do not want to discourage that. ‘Kenyan’ is not a dirty word and ‘Kenyan-born’ says nothing about nationality. We do not want to get to the stage where mentioning certain countries is automatically seen as derogatory. The words ‘Kenyan-born’ refer to a fact which is true and is not an offensive term in any way.
So then we go on to ask if the relating of the two words together creates something more offensive than the two descriptions taken singularly.
We must also ask if the description is superfluous, either in whole or on part, and whether that makes it racist.
I believe that you have subtly picked up on the latter. I cannot say whether you are correct or not as I am not a judge in a court. What I would say is that from my knowledge of the law, without any superfluous input from SJW ‘woke’ types, taking it by its intended meaning and not reading into it elements which are not there, I do not believe that it is.
We cannot be out in the situation of not being allowed to refer to athletes from a certain wth in background using descriptions commonly used to refer to other athletes. That in itself would be indirectly racist and really rather offensive. In your interpretation, we would be allowed to refer to Klosterhalfen, if she moved to Salazar, as ‘German born, from Salazar’s stable’, but not Sifan Hasan.
I think as well as being sensitive, you are actually holding certain prejudices yourself, particularly that you view being born outwith the US as in some way inferior to being born within it, and therefore unmentionable. You are so sensitive that any mention of a persin’s ethnic background or country of birth automatically triggers you to assume it is racist.
I cannot agree that someone’s (belonging such as yourself) prejudices and life experiences should inform the law so as to make it apply to some but not others. Law should be clear and interpreted so as to be straightforward, not to have a tortuous, varied application.
I get that you, as a founder, are not going to respond to the critique of overall culture on here. You had to dig back six/seven months ago to find another use of the word stable. That shows that it's not super often thrown out there.
Stop digging. Just admit you were wrong about that point. They've used "stable" many times before to describe a training group, even as recently as six/seven months ago.
Look, what I read in the "Kenyan-born-" phrase is the message to the white US kids, Jenkins et al., that they need to step up their game. I read no offense in this really. We all love Sam Chelanga for example, dont we.
Gault just rightfully points out that the Kenyan-born kids had an upbringing in an environment vastly different to Jenkins and the others , growing up at altitude is regarded by most as beneficial to distance running success.
Read it in the context, Gault' s specific piece is distance running commentary, so it is well justified to use this catchy title for exactly the reason I gave above. For that matter it would also be less relevant to point out European/Aussie or whatever "non-altitude no harsh conditions "country background.
Gault has done good for the running community spent a summer in Kenya and reported on the Kenyan training. I like reading his stuff. Anyways, gonna hit da Bong and then Im outta here. And "Ayyyyy", mate you need to relax a little I think. That's all peace out.
To the OP: if you look for racism you are likely to find it anywhere. Or everywhere. But the term you refer to that you find objectionable is, firstly, a common sporting metaphor that has typically nothing to do with race - it can be white, black or anything in-between - and, secondly, is a reflection on the mercenary nature today of professional running, where many of the best athletes go where the money takes them. For many elite Kenyans that includes the USA. Your sensitivity is in this instance misdirected.
Ignore the fact that they are Kenyans. I would feel the exact same if dudes from Bulgaria dominated middle and long distance running. Should the Army then give citizenship and pay Bulgarians to run? What if the average Bulgarian could go to the local mart and get a loaf of bread along with a vial of EPO like the Kenyans do? What it make you like them more or less?
You are demonstrating my point, and that is that there is no distinct quality that makes someone "American" other than citizenship, something these athletes earned by making a sacrifice and losing their opportunity to represent their home country, something that especially a guy like Paul Chelimo needed to turn around his career and supercede ALL Kenyan 5k guys. Our resources helped a dude who was struggling reach his top level all while wearing a USA flag. You cannot deny that crisis of identity would make a lesser man turn away. These guys are rock solid, line up more often than "American-born" athletes, and kick ass. There's not a thing more American than that to me.
While serving in WCAP, athletes are not allowed to receive contracts or appearance fees. They can only get prize money. Once their service in the military is ended they are free to do as they wish, as would any military member whose commission is over.
When they leave the army officially, how much do you think these guys are making? Definitely not as much as the top Bowerman, NOP, NN Running team, and other high profile sponsored athletes. Maybe Chelimo, but guys like Kipchichir and Kebenei probably not so much. But especially after serving in the military and having obligations outside of running, both probably wanted to take their careers to the next level, be able to start a family, which involves putting more food on the table. A Nike contract enables them to do that and they're performing at a high level representing our country. If there were more top US guys born in the country proper they'd be doing it, and if they're trying they need to work harder. They're not taking spots if the spots are there to take.
All of these guys are living the American dream that many immigrants had and have, most of whom face more obstacles in the acquisition of citizenship, education, and property than people who are born here with privileges. You probably know someone or are related to someone who has faced similar struggles. Have some empathy.
Your argument about the word stable is completely ridiculous, and has already been discredited by everyone else on this thread, so no need to engage further there.
As for the Kenyan-born distinction, I think it's completely relevant in this context. Think about it this way: Kenya and Ethiopia are utterly dominant in distance running (what you attribute that to is another debate, but this fact is undeniable). If I were a casual fan who didn't know anything about this training group, I might be curious about their success, and what kind of secret knowledge this coach must have compared to others. Pointing out the simple fact that all of these athletes were born in Kenya gives important context to the situation. Furthermore, I have no problem with immigration, nor do I think that these athletes are any less American than others, and I don't think anyone working for this website has expressed those sentiments either.
Thank you. Not sure why you singled me out but I'll take it. Must have been the racial justice talks I went to last year. Or maybe you're joking.
If a ton of the top American run borners were all from Lithiuania and 60% of the top runners in the world were Lithuanian I'd have no problem with Jon pointing it out. It would be worth noting.
And also I feel the word "racist" has lost a lot of it's meaning. Even if Jon or the entire LRC staff had some implicit bias and he used the word stable more often with black runners than white runners, I don't think that would make him a terrible person or "racist" in how most people think of the word. Yes he could then be educated to think about his biases but you calling him a "racist" without any proof could arguably be racist. Because he's a white guy, did you just assume Jon is a racist and a bad guy?
You jumped to the conclusion that Jon was a "racist" without proof. That to me shows your biases. But is it ok to be biased againt a white man? You saw Jon use the word "Stable" and concluded he is a racist from one example? "Racist" is a strong accusation but I think if its thrown around lightly it will lose its meaning.
My belief is in a vibrant community there is going to be disagreement and that isn't a bad thing. Personally I love the Army guys. They go out there and compete and raise the bar for everyone else. Immigrants are the American story.
I didn't have to "dig back" 6 or 7 months to find the Houlihan example. I went and put "Stable" and letsrun into google and found that.
Now you inspired me to find more examples of the word "stable" with mostly white training groups. (there are others from black groups that I will exclude). From Emory Mort, refers to NOP "Stable". Emory is very woke and lived on a commune so not surprising he passed.
Mark Wetmore stable: ". Eventually, he had a stable of runners from age 8 to 60 that included top local high school talent. The group became known as the Mine Mt. Road Department, after the hilly road in the center of Bernardsville that they traversed on most of their runs."
Hoka NJ/NY stable again : "Connor is one of the few true distance guys in the NJ*NY stable, but Connor feels that training with so many talented mid-d guys has really benefited him as he has to be at his best to keep up with them in practice."
I wasn't sure about Trayvon Bromell joining the New Balance "stable" since Bromell is black and most of the New Balance athletes are white. Someone more woke than me will have to rule if its acceptable.
And now I'll find examples of Kenyan writers using the word stable. WARNING I have not verified the race of these writers. There are white people in Kenya but I am making the assumption they are black.
"As athletes jostle to renew contracts with foreign agents this month, a wave of migrations is looming large around two Italian-based track and field stables."
and one more: "The four-year-old filly, Ten Thirty, beat stable mate Clancy by a half-length to win the race that attracted six runners. The race with all participants above 35 at rating produced a promising chance at one point moving at similar pace in one line except for Al Barak ridden by Dennis Kiprotich, who trailed to the finish."