23 miles at 6:07 pace is "easy" for Jordan MF Hasay. Discuss.

are you forgetting the new vaporfly is 5% vs the 4% from her marathon PR?

because 1% per hour at 6:00 pace is half a minute faster/easier

some people even get 6% from them based on the three studies

Faster pace than the winning time in Boston last year.

Inerestingcommenting wrote:

Wolf's Bane wrote:

Elite women's marathoners run in the low 220s or high 2teens. A 240 marathon should be moderate for them, which is what most elites mean when they say easy. Maybe Jordan is in 219 shape, but I expect mid to high 220s from her.

If that is true then why did Bill Rodgers and others sometimes run 8 minute mile pace?

I think many of us need to redefine what we call Easy!!!

I think this is an excellent point. Or at least one worth serious discussion.

Are today's distance runners getting enough recovery between significant runs/workouts? This is an especially relevant question at the high school level. Maybe at the collegiate level as well. Just because you're stressing a different energy system at different paces, are you allowing for sufficient and optional recovery when you follow a significant track or other type of workout with a distance run at high 5 to 6 to 7 minute pace?

"easy" is relative, but i bet she can do it without too much strain.

90% MP pace LRs are a staple of the Canova training regime. One of these every few weeks should be no problem for a world class athlete.

Where she is now, this pace is very promising assuming it was relatively comfortable all the way.

Is it me or has she gotten extremely thin over the past few years? Got to believe while the lighter weight has maybe assisted performance, she's struggled to stay healthy.

Back when I was training for a 2:18 marathon in 2010 I did a similar training run. I ran 24 miles and averaged 5:59 pace. The last 4 miles I dropped down to 5:40 a mile to make it more of a workout, but had I just continued on at the prior pace I think it would have been very close to 6:07 pace.

Anytime you run 40-50 seconds slower than marathon goal pace it shouldn't be difficult. The only thing hard about a run like that is that it just seems to go on forever. And if your like me and did it as an out and back and didn't tell anyone where you were going you start to worry about just making it back when you are twelve miles away from home.

By the way I never ran a 2:18 marathon I got the flu the week of the marathon and DNS. Then shortly after I started working full time and never trained seriously again.

va coach wrote:

Inerestingcommenting wrote:

If that is true then why did Bill Rodgers and others sometimes run 8 minute mile pace?

I think many of us need to redefine what we call Easy!!!

I think this is an excellent point. Or at least one worth serious discussion.

Are today's distance runners getting enough recovery between significant runs/workouts? This is an especially relevant question at the high school level. Maybe at the collegiate level as well. Just because you're stressing a different energy system at different paces, are you allowing for sufficient and optional recovery when you follow a significant track or other type of workout with a distance run at high 5 to 6 to 7 minute pace?

None of that changes the fact that 6:07 pace is easy for Hasay (not that a long run hast to be easy)

sanchobaile wrote:

Jordan posted this on her instagram story:

"Easy 23 miler happened to equal marathon pb haha" with a photo of her watch reading 2:20:57.

That's 44 secs per mile slower than her marathon PB pace.

Sounds kind of crazy to me. She's clearly already back in great shape. The question is, is she burning the candle too hot?

Whooppee!

She's what, 24? I can remember 6:30's being comfortable and easy for 15 milers in my 20's and 30's. She is a top ranked athlete. What is the big deal?

Hanzo wrote:

According to Daniels calculator, her easy pace with her Marathon PR should be 6:11-6:34/mile. So it was slightly faster than that.

However, keep in mind Jordan is probably the MOST slow-twitch runner ever. Her PRs of 1500, 3k, 5k and 10k are disgustingly slow in comparison to her Marathon/HM times. No matter which calculator I use (Daniels, Tinman, etc) the times of 15:30 and 31:40 seem to be much worse than her 2:21 marathon. Hell, even Gwen Jorgensen ran faster 5k/10k but is more than 15 mins slower in the full marathon.

Being so extremely on the slow-twitch side muscle-fiber wise makes an easy run at this pace much more manageable for her than for a balanced runner. A fast-twitch runner would have to run considerably slower on her easy days in relation.

Informative reply. I just started the thread because it sounded fast, especially for such a long run and someone coming back from injury, and, as I suggested in the thread title, simply worth discussing! But this poster makes good and constructive points to the contrary. I don't think there's any reason to condemn her or say she's going to get injured again, thought she might. I just thought it was remarkable and faster than I would have expected for her.

It appeared to be an outdoor run, not Alter-G. But she only posted a picture of her watch.

sanchobaile wrote:

Jordan posted this on her instagram story:

"Easy 23 miler happened to equal marathon pb haha" with a photo of her watch reading 2:20:57.

That's 44 secs per mile slower than her marathon PB pace.

Sounds kind of crazy to me. She's clearly already back in great shape. The question is, is she burning the candle too hot?

I doubt it was a true 'easy' run, but it's clearly not that difficult for someone aerobically fit like her.

Think about it, if she were racing herself then at the finish she'd be 5km behind.

It's not a bad idea to do 22-24 mile long runs at an easy pace. The OP didn't say whether she changed pace significantly, other than the warmup, on this. With a best of 6:02/M for a marathon, I've done training runs of 20M averaging anywhere from 6:23/M to 8:00, but usually averaging 6:45-7 flat (2:15-2:20). However, these are not usually very easy as a whole because I do the second half at MP after an easy first half, roughly 7:20/6:20. An even paced long run that is 40 seconds per mile slower than MP would be of moderate difficulty and easy to recover from, whereas the same overall pace with easy first half and MP second half would be much harder.

She must be in good shape now.

Inerestingcommenting wrote:

Wolf's Bane wrote:

Elite women's marathoners run in the low 220s or high 2teens. A 240 marathon should be moderate for them, which is what most elites mean when they say easy. Maybe Jordan is in 219 shape, but I expect mid to high 220s from her.

If that is true then why did Bill Rodgers and others sometimes run 8 minute mile pace?

I think many of us need to redefine what we call Easy!!!

Easy has multiple meanings unless you are really pedantic about your training paces. 10 miles in 70 minutes and 10 miles in 80 minutes will both have the same "10 miles easy" entry in my training diary.

since she has a 71 vdot (in vaporflys, true vdot would be either 68 or 69)

6:07 is actually easy aerobic for her

https://i.imgur.com/5p8nH6s.png

She is a real c u t i e p i e !!!!!!

not a creepy guy......... wrote:

She is a real c u t i e p i e !!!!!!

Yes, you are a creepy guy. We can talk about running without bringing looks into it.

This doesn't seem that outrageous to me. She's sub-68 & sub-2:21. 2:20:57 = 5:22/mile. I marathon at 6:00-6:15 and I would consider 6:45-7:00 pace "easy." It's all relative but a lot of my runs fall into that range and if I'm doing a long run even without tempo or faster portions I'm usually ticking off miles in the 6:20s/30s by the end of it. I think a better question is if that's doing too much but I tend to think if you're getting ready to run a fast 26.2 why would you train much slower than :30-1:00 than your goal race pace on your long runs. Most consider long runs to be a a weekly workout day.

NewtotheSouthSide wrote:

not a creepy guy......... wrote:

She is a real c u t i e p i e !!!!!!

Yes, you are a creepy guy. We can talk about running without bringing looks into it.

.

Are you new here?

That's still a solid run .... she is an amazing runner so I believe it.

I ran the first 5k at Chicago with her and she looked like she was jogging, I believe we were around 16:30.

She's fast.

Shouldn't everyone be able to run 44 seconds slower per mile than their marathon pace without much effort? What do you expect?