Sorry for the broad and silly question, but I desperately wanted to know what a 400m training plan looks like/how it evolves throughout the season. For example, what's done in base, pre-comp and racing periods? Are mile pace reps used for general endurance and 800m pace over medium reps as more specific endurance? I honestly have next to no clue on how to train for it and was hoping to get a basic outline here. Would massively appreciate any help!
If it helps any, some personal info
M
24
Been running 20 months now
Been doing anything close to "training" for about a year and a bit, and it's the first time I'm training for the speedier stuff
Don't really have a pb for 400m, I ran a really hard 65 almost 10 months ago or so in a short 800m workout on a very windy day but that's about it. I think I'm in 27.xx 200m shape right now
What does 400m training look like?
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There are lots of free PDFs out their with Clyde Hart training. Google them and that will give you a good outline.
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hey thanks for the reply man; I'll be damn sure to look him up!
I was actually hoping to say 400m/800m training in the title, if anyone has insight into what a plan for that would generally look like or where I could go to find that out, I'd appreciate that too! -
The Clyde Hart training is really good. When I switched to that I made significant improvements (when I was focussing on 400m not 800m). Good luck.
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There are details of Juantorena's training available on several sites. might need a bit of searching but it's out there!
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great resource for 800m training, im sure there's plenty of 400/800 stuff in there
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669719 -
Track chick: thanks! I'll be looking up that today :) I hear a good 400m is crucial to 800 performance anyway
Miler mb: wow completely forgot about that, will give that an eye too thank you
800: wow that is a long thread but it definitely looks full of valuable information, thanks a bunch for the link!
Thanks guys!
One final question I had was is it possible to go from being essentially completely detrained to my goal of 56-58 and 2:10-2:16 in 16 weeks? Probably in 62 and 2:30 shape right now lol -
I ran for razorbacks about a decade ago. Im still recovering
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Clyde Hart’s training is good, however his training is focused on athletes with 46 400m speed. It doesn’t mean it wouldn’t help you though, but developing speed would be better for you in my opinion.
Base phase:
Basic week could look like this -
Day1: 1.5 mi warmup / drills, 4x800m focusing on form and having a consistent pace t/o the intervals...3x100m strides, 1.5 mi cool down...core, stretch.
Day2: AM Lifting/stretch, (power cleans, front squat, calf raises, etc.)
PM 1 mi warmup/drills
6x strides 100m (2, slow, 2 building, 2 quick)
Stretch again/core
Day3:
Repeat hills (Find a long incline in the road or a steep hill, 150m+ hill/road if possible...OR stadium sprints) basically for the hills you want to have 3 different paces. A tempo pace going up the beginning of the hill, and then 95% effort at the incline and maintaining good form for explosiveness. Then, a recovery jog back down and repeat. Stadium sprints Same thing, hard pace up, slow jog back down.
Core/stretch
Day4: same as day 2 (except lifting is hang snatch, GHB raise, box jumps, step ups, etc.)
Core/stretch
Day 5: 6x60m sprints (2 standing start, 2 falling, 2 3pt start) all out full recovery.
Then do medicine ball throws for explosiveness
Core/stretch
Day 6: lifting (back squat, bench, pull ups, shoulders, curls, etc.)
Core/stretch
Day 7:
Active rest, bike slow, easy run, or just do some core/rolling out
Do this for about 10-12 weeks and then you can start doing more speed stuff. Core/stretching is essential for 400m runners, as you typically fall apart the last 100. You don’t wanna do too much speed too soon or you could injure yourself like I have, or burn out. Lifting is big for 400m guys, so make sure you aren’t sacrificing form. Ive ran a 48.6 and just started to train again after I got two stress fractures.
This is basic and you could easily change whatever you want, but it’s worked in the past for myself and others. Pre comp/comp phases I can type out later if you want. -
Oh sh1t you said 58 or 56 in 16 weeks. 62 to 58 is definitely possible. You have the 200m speed already for a sub 60. You are correct in that a faster 400 leads to a faster 800. But a faster 200 is also essential for a faster 400. You need speed work/speed endurance
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CollegeGuy0 wrote:
Oh sh1t you said 58 or 56 in 16 weeks. 62 to 58 is definitely possible. You have the 200m speed already for a sub 60. You are correct in that a faster 400 leads to a faster 800. But a faster 200 is also essential for a faster 400. You need speed work/speed endurance
Sort of. Some runners like Kerley only have a 20.24 200 PR but a 43.70 400. 400 split average is just 1.61 sec slower per.
Only a few have held 200/400wr at the same time. 400-800 double WR is pretty much impossible.
Looks like the 200-400 has gone the same way. The super fast 200 runners don't seem to be much faster then some runners that have PR's like Kerley or a Javon Francis (20.52). I agree it helps though, although I think a 20 flat 200 runner could run clsoe to 43 flat too if they had the strength. Wariner 20.19- 43.45 comes to mind or Butch Reynolds 20.46-43.29 Seems that maybe if Reynolds did have 20 flat speed he would have run 42.9 Ran much more even race. -
CollegeRunner0 wrote:
Clyde Hart’s training is good, however his training is focused on athletes with 46 400m speed. It doesn’t mean it wouldn’t help you though, but developing speed would be better for you in my opinion.
Base phase:
Basic week could look like this -
Day1: 1.5 mi warmup / drills, 4x800m focusing on form and having a consistent pace t/o the intervals...3x100m strides, 1.5 mi cool down...core, stretch.
Day2: AM Lifting/stretch, (power cleans, front squat, calf raises, etc.)
PM 1 mi warmup/drills
6x strides 100m (2, slow, 2 building, 2 quick)
Stretch again/core
Day3:
Repeat hills (Find a long incline in the road or a steep hill, 150m+ hill/road if possible...OR stadium sprints) basically for the hills you want to have 3 different paces. A tempo pace going up the beginning of the hill, and then 95% effort at the incline and maintaining good form for explosiveness. Then, a recovery jog back down and repeat. Stadium sprints Same thing, hard pace up, slow jog back down.
Core/stretch
Day4: same as day 2 (except lifting is hang snatch, GHB raise, box jumps, step ups, etc.)
Core/stretch
Day 5: 6x60m sprints (2 standing start, 2 falling, 2 3pt start) all out full recovery.
Then do medicine ball throws for explosiveness
Core/stretch
Day 6: lifting (back squat, bench, pull ups, shoulders, curls, etc.)
Core/stretch
Day 7:
Active rest, bike slow, easy run, or just do some core/rolling out
Do this for about 10-12 weeks and then you can start doing more speed stuff. Core/stretching is essential for 400m runners, as you typically fall apart the last 100. You don’t wanna do too much speed too soon or you could injure yourself like I have, or burn out. Lifting is big for 400m guys, so make sure you aren’t sacrificing form. Ive ran a 48.6 and just started to train again after I got two stress fractures.
This is basic and you could easily change whatever you want, but it’s worked in the past for myself and others. Pre comp/comp phases I can type out later if you want.
I don't think I have the words to describe what a quality post this is, thank you so much, really appreciate it. This looks like a terrific well--rounded schedule and no surprise since like you said it seems to have contributed to you running a freaking 48.6 which I would be happy to hold for 50m lmao. If you're still around, what would you think of me following this sort of schedule for 8 or so weeks and then progressing into speedier/more speed endurance stuff (which if you have time I'd be very grateful to hear what you'd recommend for that phase of training). I'm about to check out clyde hart and alberto juantorena's training guides but those schedules are for people 15-18 seconds faster than I am so I have to keep that in mind like you said as well -
I can't imagine having that kind of 400m endurance to be honest, as amazing and awesome as it is. I don't have ANY type of endurance at the moment lol, very unfit, but I have a feeling if I trained properly with a schedule like the one collegerunner graciously took the time to provide I could maybe run 58 off of 26 or something if I could get down there. Very interesting examples though!
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Interesting. I thought Kerley was faster in the 200 but you’re right. Pretty amazing honestly. I agree 200/400 is an incredibly hard double to have WRs in, but 400/800 is a whole other atmosphere.
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Thanks lol and trust me I feel out of shape from being away from prolonging injuries. I’ve ran a 47 split but I’d be lucky to break 51 right now. Yeah I think you could follow the base phase program for about 8 weeks and then transition to speed endurance things. I’m not too sure on your 800 goal to be honest, I know nothing about that kind of training so this is all strictly for the 400. I’d wait and see what other posters have to say or look at other threads about that. You could definitely add more mileage on days to help you though - that’s just a skeleton of what you could do. The hill reps I would do 8-12 by the way, I feel like these help my 400 a lot, but it might just be how my body reacts to this training. (Since everyone is different)
I’ll look at my training notes from last year and type out some stuff tomorrow if I have time. I am totally convinced you can break 60. Reaching 58/56 in 16 weeks is possible but you’ll have to work for it. Learning how to run the 400 is important as well which I can gladly write out if you’re unfamiliar. -
Thanks man! You've already given me a gold mine of info so no rush haha. And thanks for the vote of confidence, id be thrilled to get under 60!
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So, it depends. Like someone said 400/800 looks a lot different than 200/400.
If you are not fit aerobically you will not handle the 800 well no matter how much speed you do. Speed will not matter much once you pass the first 400 and are primarily aerobic unless you are already aerobically fit.
