Two days, one-hundred and one posters, 90 Republicans or Trump supports and eleven either Libertarians or Democrats. Posters are debating the merits or a wall as if it will be built. There will not be a wall.
Two days, one-hundred and one posters, 90 Republicans or Trump supports and eleven either Libertarians or Democrats. Posters are debating the merits or a wall as if it will be built. There will not be a wall.
Pierre Douton wrote:
Sounds like Trump is having a deterrent effect! Why not keep working on the problem to get it even lower?
The rest of your post is nothing but whataboutism so I won’t engage.
Wrong - levels were this low under Obama too. You don't know what you're talking about.
A wall is bad because it's a waste of money -- it won't do anything. Spend it on something useful. Maybe $5 billion toward antibiotic resistance.
A lot of dumb people on this thread.
Your argument that locking your and it keeps 99% of the riff raff at Bay isn’t equivalent.
It’s more like spending a bunch of money and taking ga lot of time reinforcing your door with multiple locks and bolts and leaving the windows open.
The wall is more of a symbolic monument than a cost efficient and effective means to control illegal activity.
Liberals need those immigrant votes because their local votes are on decline. Thanks socialism.
Someone linked this article:
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/
That says that more and more the illegals are people who have been here a long time, and that it's dropped to only 6% of them came in the past 5 years.
So, most drugs come in via paths that the wall won't address, illegal population is already dropping, and becoming more entirely long-term stayers, so it's mostly a problem that has to be addressed by enforcing I9 laws... That wouldn't be difficult to do, but, there's no evidence Trump or anyone else in either party care to do it.
So instead we get a circus about the wall, instead of addressing the real issue.
Misinformation is the key to winning the propaganda war.
Unsurprisingly, DHS is AWOL on actual facts.
http://humanevents.com/2013/05/29/what-is-the-real-number-of-illegal-border-crossings/
I skipped over the previous responses, but I heard a joke that if we build a 14' wall, then Home Depot sells 16' ladders.
Our biggest concern with border security is not asylum seekers (who get vetted by nature of them asking for asylum) or un-documented farm-workers and similar low-skill/low-wage workers, but the relatively smaller number of human traffickers, drug cartels, terrorists and other serious criminals who will be as creative as they need to be to arrive by boat, through Canada and other methods "if" the wall is a discouragement.
Because the wall is purely a symbol of racism. Border stops are at a 40 year low. Criminals enter the US in other places. Why would we build something that we don't need that costs a ton of money? That's not being fiscally conservative.
We will block the path of many migratory species with the wall. It has to be built some distance from the border, so large swaths of private property will be have to be split and/or taken through eminent domain. Some of the portions on private property will have doors. The problem isn't the effectiveness of the wall, it's the cost/benefit analysis. The costs, both direct and indirect make the wall a poor investment ATMO.
Environmentally Catastrophic wrote:
We will block the path of many migratory species with the wall. It has to be built some distance from the border, so large swaths of private property will be have to be split and/or taken through eminent domain. Some of the portions on private property will have doors. The problem isn't the effectiveness of the wall, it's the cost/benefit analysis. The costs, both direct and indirect make the wall a poor investment ATMO.
And a cost/benefit analysis has never been provided by Trump. It was a campaign slogan that his braintrust thought would motivate his targeted voters and it helped get him elected. It was never thought through and no border security experts were consulted. It was compounded by the ridiculous promise that Mexico would pay for it.
Trump is now cornered between failing to deliver a campaign promise or fighting to get Congress to fund a wall that he can only try to support with bullsh*t. Does he really think "Build the Wall & and Crime Will Fall" will convince Congress to approve the wall?
Tunnels work, even for the drug traffickers that control the border.
Mexico’s Sinaloa cartel has long controlled drug trafficking along the border in California’s Imperial Valley, which offers easy freeway access to Los Angeles and Phoenix. Authorities have found a number of tunnels in the region in recent years, including an underwater tunnel through which a trafficker swam in scuba gear to deliver vacuum-sealed packages of drugs
Deniers still won't admit the actual reality. Note: don't confuse Fernando Grijalva with Congressman Raúl Grijalva (D-AZ).
Customs and Border Protection agent Fernando Grijalva told CBS News this is the worst immigration crisis he’s ever witnessed in his entire career.
CBS evening news interviewed Grijalva in Arizona Thursday, after agents apprehended 180 migrants attempting to gain access to the U.S. He said the area has become a popular spot for illegal border crossings in recent months.
“I’ve seen six different presidents the time that I’ve been with the Border Patrol, and this is the worst crisis that I’ve seen,” he said.
Grijalva wasn’t afraid to highlight the severity of issue and emphasized when asked if it should be called a “crisis.”
"You actually will use that word, crisis?” the CBS reporter asked. “Yes,” Grijalva replied.
He also said border agents continue their patrols despite the high risks and lack of pay due to the government shutdown. “They believe that strongly in the mission and they know that they that we have a job to do,” Grijalva concluded.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/border-patrol-agents-apprehending-illegal-immigrants-working-without-pay-during-shutdown/Yes. It. Will.. wrote:
Liberals need those immigrant votes because their local votes are on decline. Thanks socialism.
Yeah, Trump has really expanded the Republican base.
Pierre Douton wrote:
Flagpole, you are making a lot of the James Bond style arguments I discredited above. Let's not have the perfect be the enemy of the good here. Surely you have locks on your doors at home. The wall will stop at least some illegal immigration by making it more difficult. Not everyone is going to rent a 50 foot ladder or take a boat instead. Some will give up.
Regarding point 8, what is America about? To me, it's a melting pot of skilled, legal immigrants who are willing to work hard. It doesn't mean we need to allow every tribesman who's been living in a mud hut or drug infested warzone into our country. If their lives are so bad outside America, is it because they lack some magic dirt present only in our country? Or is it, perhaps, because they are simply uneducated, of poor character, and not a good fit?
And I strongly agree with your Point #2. We need a comprehensive approach including a wall/steel barrier and punishment for business owners who hire illegal workers.
I'm assuming by now someone has already replied, but there are a number of reasons that Republicans, while in control of Congress and the White House, haven't already approved funding for the wall. One, the border is MASSIVE. It will cost much more than Trump is claiming and that doesn't even include the cost to 'guard' the border. Republicans know it is a STUPID idea. Trump made this promise to his base and it's about all that he's got left of a horrible, horrible presidency.
Also, immigration across the southern border is lower than it was been for 25 years or so. There is simply NOT a border crisis. Trump is trying to rally the base to distract from Mueller. He knows his goose is cooked. He's desperate. He's cornered and he's going to create crisis after crisis until he's removed from office.
BTW, Pelosi played him for the fool that he is.
I truly wonder if any single person commenting in this thread has ever crossed, or even seen with own eyes, any portion of the southern border of the USA. Most of the remarks here are completely laughable. It's sad to know that this type of wholesale ignorance on the part of an entire nation of humans is the only reason this topic is a talking point at all.
I've crossed the border by plane.
That'll clear any wall.
i like facts wrote:
Come on!!! wrote:
More than half of what you call illegal immigration comes from people overstaying legal visas. They mostly fly in.
It's closer to 44% I believe. According to Stephen Crowder. And this link below
https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/
You should have read the next paragraph:
The CMS report, written by Robert Warren, a former director of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service’s statistics division, says 65 percent of net arrivals — those joining the undocumented population — from 2008 to 2015 were visa overstays./
44% of the total illegal population in 2015 were visa overstays, but many of them had been in the country for well over 10 years. Of the more recent arrivals, to 2015, 65% were visa overstays.
L L wrote:
I've crossed the border by plane.
That'll clear any wall.
How many of the dirt-poor Guatemalans or Salvadorans will be arriving in planes?
MAGAers on suicide watch since Trump just rolled over for Pelosi.
Where's all this 4D chess? A wall just lost, and lost hard. Case closed.