Based on the results of the Tinmen since their group really came together, I’ve been thinking about how Tom is clearly one of the best coaches in the country. His athletes just keep improving and the group will only get better as more athletes recognize how good a coach he is.
Here’s my hypothetical...could Tinman build an NCAA dynasty if given a head coaching job? Almost all of the best distance squads in the NCAA aren’t at schools known for other sports (Syracuse, Colorado, NAU, Portland, Villanova). A good distance coach can win wherever. So let’s give Tinman a hypothetical job at a Power 5 school that has never been known for distance running (think Kentucky, Penn State, Illinois, Arizona State). This way he has good facilities and a biggish name to use for recruiting. Could he win a title, and if so, how long do you think it would take?
Could Tinman build an NCAA dynasty?
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bae?
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Can he recruit?
Can he manage team dynamics?
Is he good with public and community relations?
How much does he like paperwork?
Can he manage money?
If so, maybe. His approach to training is smarter than most college coaches I know. -
uh Villanova are NCAA basketball champs and Syracuse is also historically good
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Is he better than any other post collegiate coach in the country? Has he coached people faster than the listed below?
Mackey?
Rowlands?
Rae?
Hanson Bros?
Haas?
Fox?
Gary?
Schumacher?
Tracy?
Probably 10 other guys I can’t think of.
The answer is no. -
get out of here nerd wrote:
uh Villanova are NCAA basketball champs and Syracuse is also historically good
I think OPs point was those schools dont have deep sprint/field squads, they only really are strong in distance.
He doesnt seem to realize they are strong distance schools because of the fact that they arent strong in the rest of their track program. They are spending their scholarship money on distance that other schools spread throughout sprints and field events. If tinman went to a P5 school, he would not do any better than their current distance coach, because he would be fighting the same lack or distance funding. -
Tinman is Bae wrote:
Based on the results of the Tinmen since their group really came together, I’ve been thinking about how Tom is clearly one of the best coaches in the country. His athletes just keep improving and the group will only get better as more athletes recognize how good a coach he is.
Here’s my hypothetical...could Tinman build an NCAA dynasty if given a head coaching job? Almost all of the best distance squads in the NCAA aren’t at schools known for other sports (Syracuse, Colorado, NAU, Portland, Villanova). A good distance coach can win wherever. So let’s give Tinman a hypothetical job at a Power 5 school that has never been known for distance running (think Kentucky, Penn State, Illinois, Arizona State). This way he has good facilities and a biggish name to use for recruiting. Could he win a title, and if so, how long do you think it would take?
NO! -
Tinman is Bae wrote:
Based on the results of the Tinmen since their group really came together, I’ve been thinking about how Tom is clearly one of the best coaches in the country. His athletes just keep improving and the group will only get better as more athletes recognize how good a coach he is.
Here’s my hypothetical...could Tinman build an NCAA dynasty if given a head coaching job? Almost all of the best distance squads in the NCAA aren’t at schools known for other sports (Syracuse, Colorado, NAU, Portland, Villanova). A good distance coach can win wherever. So let’s give Tinman a hypothetical job at a Power 5 school that has never been known for distance running (think Kentucky, Penn State, Illinois, Arizona State). This way he has good facilities and a biggish name to use for recruiting. Could he win a title, and if so, how long do you think it would take?
No way. He is coaching former All Americans to mediocre results. Those athletes should be improving from age 22-26 just by nature of being older. they are not doing anything particularly noteworthy at all. Tin man would be a nobody if it weren't for drew hunter.
Not only that, but Tinman wouldn't enter the college coaching ranks. He has a solid gig now, I'm sure he's making decent money and has a lot less headaches than he would if he were coaching college. -
I agree that he has Drew Hunter and that’s it for “Elite” track guys. The rest are just shooting to qualify for USA meet. Watch Indoors, he doesn’t have a person who would make indoor NCAA meet!
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Can he do the other stuff? wrote:
Can he recruit?
Can he manage team dynamics?
Is he good with public and community relations?
How much does he like paperwork?
Can he manage money?
If so, maybe. His approach to training is smarter than most college coaches I know.
How do you think he assembled his team?
How do you think he created a positive group culture?
Why do you think he is so well known (hint: lots of communication on message boards)?
Why do you think he put up with the BS that it takes to get a PHD?
Why do you think he is a responsible family
man who also has helped Drew navigate the professional scene?
There. Answered all you questions. Could Tinman build an NCAA dynasty? Hell yes. People need to stop being indignant and recognize that he is a good coach. Guys aren’t just improving “a little bit” they are improving a lot in a group that doesn’t have the resources that the Oregon groups have. Plus this is an age where most people quit the sport entirely. He is doing good things. He doesn’t have too many US/international titles but he will within in the next 5 years and you will all move the goal posts again.
The reason why he would destroy everyone in the NCAA is because his philosophy hinges upon long term, steady development. If that sounds stupid and like a no brainer, then yeah, you are right. A lot of NCAA coaches will talk about this same thing in their USATFCCA symposiums and then fail to implement in. They are too busy slamming square pegs into round holes and try to race fast for 3 seasons every single damn year. Give Tinman the resources and he will absolutely slam dunk on the NCAA. -
how come we don't hear about whoever coaches guys like Jerrell Mock (62:15 at Houston), I don't follow the sport that closely at NCAA level anymore, I have heard of Reed Fischer but Mock is more of an unknown to me
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CU won a national championship in football. They’ve not been very good recently but they were in the not too distant past.
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Finally voice reason wrote:
I agree that he has Drew Hunter and that’s it for “Elite” track guys. The rest are just shooting to qualify for USA meet. Watch Indoors, he doesn’t have a person who would make indoor NCAA meet!
Pretty sure Hunter, Fischer and Parsons would all make the indoor NCAA meet -
let's stop with can x person do the mountains of paperwork required of head track and xc coaches. There are not mountains of paperwork and the work there is is not complicated, could be done by a HS kid. Coaching this sport at the collegiate level is not rocker science, just look at some of the head coaches out there, complete clowns.
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I couldn't even imagine how expensive it would be to just build a college let alone one that competes at the NCAA division 1 level. That would take years and 100s of millions of dollars.
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paper pusher x wrote:
lCoaching this sport at the collegiate level is not rocker science,.
I don't think rocker science is that difficult either. Most hillfolk can make those by hand out of trees they chopped down. -
seasoned ranker wrote:
Finally voice reason wrote:
I agree that he has Drew Hunter and that’s it for “Elite” track guys. The rest are just shooting to qualify for USA meet. Watch Indoors, he doesn’t have a person who would make indoor NCAA meet!
Pretty sure Hunter, Fischer and Parsons would all make the indoor NCAA meet
I think the point is that they wouldn’t yet this year. A team full of Hunter’s wouldn’t even participated in xc due to injury for example.
Let’s see where tinman Elite finishes this year when all the big guys show up at USATF -
back and forth....... wrote:
paper pusher x wrote:
lCoaching this sport at the collegiate level is not rocker science,.
I don't think rocker science is that difficult either. Most hillfolk can make those by hand out of trees they chopped down.
That is correct, you proved my point. I bet even a cave man could do it...... -
Reverse backwards wrote:
seasoned ranker wrote:
Finally voice reason wrote:
I agree that he has Drew Hunter and that’s it for “Elite” track guys. The rest are just shooting to qualify for USA meet. Watch Indoors, he doesn’t have a person who would make indoor NCAA meet!
Pretty sure Hunter, Fischer and Parsons would all make the indoor NCAA meet
I think the point is that they wouldn’t yet this year. A team full of Hunter’s wouldn’t even participated in xc due to injury for example.
Let’s see where tinman Elite finishes this year when all the big guys show up at USATF
If that’s his point, it’s not a very good one. How many BTC runners have an NCAA indoors qualifying mark?
And he doesn’t have a team of Hunters - he has a team of different people (dumb response to a dumb posit). Oddly enough, they went to a national cross country championship this year and they won it. -
Finally voice reason wrote:
I agree that he has Drew Hunter and that’s it for “Elite” track guys. The rest are just shooting to qualify for USA meet. Watch Indoors, he doesn’t have a person who would make indoor NCAA meet!
Well not many people have raced indoor yet. Hes already had a guy run sub 8, a guy who won the USA marathon and a month later PR’d to run 8:02. A guy who won a 1500m in Australia in 3:43 closing in 54 comfortably. I don’t think anyone else in Tinman has raced a track race this year yet but they’ve got plenty of guys who would make the NCAA meet
