1 Japanese High School Coach Has Produced More Current Sub 2:10 Marathoners Than All of the United States

New
  • wejo
    cofounder
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 12:21pm CST
    Forum Index
    The details are in the Week That Was, but one Japanese high school coach, Hayashi Morozumi, has coached as many current sub 2:10 marathoners as all of America.

    Here is the marathon times the top 3 guys coached by Moruzumi ran in 2018:
    Suguru Osako 2:05:50
    Yuki Sato 2:08:58
    Akinobu Murasawa 2:09:47

    America had one sub 2:10 guy last year, Galen Rupp. There are only 3 guys still running professionally in the US who have ever broken sub 2:10 (Rupp, Dathan Ritzenhein, and Abdi Abidarahman) and none of the other 2 have done it in 5 years.

    This is simply amazing. And it begs the question, what are we doing wrong on the men's side in America?

    And while googling about sub 2:10 marathons I found an article from nearly 30 years ago lamenting how few sub 2:10 guys there were. Not much has changed except the bar internationally keeps getting faster and faster.

    Links below:
    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/01/wtw-young-guns-ready-to-replace-mo-farah-three-sub-210-marathoners-at-1-japanese-high-school-canadian-5k-record-destroyed/
    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-10-23-8901250146-story.html
  • wejo
    cofounder
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 12:29pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    And I've been wanting to discuss the American mediocrity in the marathon for a while. Some really don't like the word "mediocre" because Kenya and Ethiopia dominate the marathon with Japan in 3rd and after Eritrea, Morocco, and maybe a few others you could say America is next.

    But we have 1 guy in the top 100 in the world.

    If you want to sound off with an audio rant we may put you on one of our podcasts. You can do so below
  • Great coaching!
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 12:30pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    The details are in the Week That Was, but one Japanese high school coach, Hayashi Morozumi, has coached as many current sub 2:10 marathoners as all of America.

    Here is the marathon times the top 3 guys coached by Moruzumi ran in 2018:
    Suguru Osako 2:05:50
    Yuki Sato 2:08:58
    Akinobu Murasawa 2:09:47

    America had one sub 2:10 guy last year, Galen Rupp. There are only 3 guys still running professionally in the US who have ever broken sub 2:10 (Rupp, Dathan Ritzenhein, and Abdi Abidarahman) and none of the other 2 have done it in 5 years.

    This is simply amazing. And it begs the question, what are we doing wrong on the men's side in America?

    And while googling about sub 2:10 marathons I found an article from nearly 30 years ago lamenting how few sub 2:10 guys there were. Not much has changed except the bar internationally keeps getting faster and faster.

    Links below:
    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/01/wtw-young-guns-ready-to-replace-mo-farah-three-sub-210-marathoners-at-1-japanese-high-school-canadian-5k-record-destroyed/
    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-10-23-8901250146-story.html


    JS has coached 3 sub 2.10 runners in just 3 years coaching!

    Victor Kipchirchir 2:07:38
    Richard Mengich 2:08: 48
    Duncan Mayio 2:09:26
  • 1970s GBTC member
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 12:48pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    Weldon - you have hit the nail on the head here. The men's marathon is about the only Olympic distance in which we are considerably worse than we were 35-40 years ago. Take a look at the 1983 marathon list and your jaw will hit the floor. At the 1984 Trials Pete Pfitzinger won over a field which included 17-20 men who had qualifying times of 2:12 or better (I believe his 2:12 qualifying time from a race in NZ put him 16th or 18th in depth going in). What I see as one of the major problems in this one event is - - - - - track. Today's young post collegians come out of school and every 13:45-55 guy (28:45 / 8:35 steeple etc) wants to spend 4-8 years focusing on track minimum before going up (almost like the roads are oddly somehow admitting defeat). In 1978-84 when we were really really deep in the marathon many of these same types of post collegians came out of college and started focusing on road running and marathoning much earlier if not right away - mainly because there was no living to be made on the track. Now a 13:40 guy has numerous clubs to choose from, funding etc - to remain on the track. If we could get more people to do what Greg Meyer did (8:29 college steepler / 3:59 miler who came out and was marathoning within 2 years and won Boston 2:09.00 '83), rather than having our people "wait" until the very end of their careers to marathon, we'd see depth come roaring back. To all the 13:50 guys out there START MARATHONING SOON AFTER SCHOOL, because your chances of seeing top national class running or perhaps international level running - exists in one Olympic event - 26.2.
  • Former Sub 14:00
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 12:55pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    And I've been wanting to discuss the American mediocrity in the marathon for a while. Some really don't like the word "mediocre" because Kenya and Ethiopia dominate the marathon with Japan in 3rd and after Eritrea, Morocco, and maybe a few others you could say America is next.

    But we have 1 guy in the top 100 in the world.

    If you want to sound off with an audio rant we may put you on one of our podcasts. You can do so below


    I think it starts with the training programs. A lot of the writings on Japanese training has them doing things drastically different than most contemporary western runners. You can see this in the writings of Canova and other Kenyan marathon coaches who like sharing their information as well.

    The whole “Africans ran to school and got an advantage” excuse is nixed when observing Japanese success. They are a homogenous society as well and much smaller than the U.S. They never had to run to school. They took the train instead. Why can’t we have success?

    People sometimes points to the distractions that our runners face and can’t focus as heavily on running as Africans do. Well, what about how Japan lives in an arguably more advanced society than us with even more distractions available? I was in Tokyo last year (where most of the ekiden teams are located near) and I challenge anyone to not get distracted or sidetracked while being there. Crazy place.

    People also talk about diet. We have all the same food available to us as they do. What’s stopping us? If someone is determined to run fast they are going to do the necessary “little things.”

    So that leads us back to coaching. Our coaching, our school systems not developing athletes, and a reluctance to think outside the box has led us to where we are. Not to mention arrogance at not being able accept any of this. America is very good at making excuses.
  • Dillllllll
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 12:57pm CST
    re: Great coaching!
    Forum Index
    Being a 2:08-2:09 marathoner is a shitload of work, not very fun and does not pay well if you are an educated American. It also won't even get you marginally famous in America. Obviously it pays well if you are Kenyan or an Ethiopian. Japan's corporate running team structure make it far less risky and more financially stable to try to become a 2:08-2:09 marathoner. In Japan, you will become marginally famous if you run a sub 2:10 marathon because they really like running. There simply is just very little incentive for Americans to try to become sub 2:10 marathoners.
  • observant
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 1:13pm CST
    re: Dillllllll
    Forum Index
    Name the top three marathoners in the world, off the top of your head. Pretty tough, huh, and you're an avid runner. Now, name who you believe is the best football or basketball player in the world. Therein lies the answer to this question.

    Why run and win $30,000? A marginal football or basketball player earns ten times that amount. Not many men even get full rides anymore to college for distance running. Football provides 25 brand new scholarships annually. Basketball 11.

    Running will continue to evolve into an outlying, fringe sport. The late 1970s and early '80s are gone forever.
  • SDSU Aztec
    registered
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 1:20pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    I don't know the answer, but will a good American runner make more money on the track or in the marathon? There are Kenyans at all the major marathons so a 2:10 runner is not going win much prize money.
  • douglas burke
    registered
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 1:33pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    I go by the top 1000 All Time List's, The 1000th fastest time is 2:10.08

    1, Kenya -464
    2. Ethiopia -185
    3. Japan -101
    4. USA-20
    5. Morrocco-19
    6. Great Britain and Spain -16 each
    8. Eritrea and South Africa -14 each
    10. Tanzania -13
    11. Italy-12
    12. Mexico-11
    13- France-10
    14. Portugal -9
    15. Korea and Brazil 8 each

    So USA is # 4 in the World in Marathoning.

    Sidenote Japan has 95 sub 2:10.00 Marathoners and The Continent of Europe has 99 (Marc Smet is #100 with his 2:10.00
    Japan and Europe should have 100 or more sub 2:10.00 Marathoners in a few months.
  • douglas burke
    registered
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 1:37pm CST
    re: douglas burke
    Forum Index
    Also The World has 956 sub 2:10.00 Marathoners so it should be 1000 in a year or Two.

    It will be interesting to look at the All Time top 1000 list to see which Countries can improve their numbers year by year.
  • Former Sub 14:00
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 2:41pm CST
    re: observant
    Forum Index
    observant wrote:

    Name the top three marathoners in the world, off the top of your head. Pretty tough, huh, and you're an avid runner. Now, name who you believe is the best football or basketball player in the world. Therein lies the answer to this question.

    Why run and win $30,000? A marginal football or basketball player earns ten times that amount. Not many men even get full rides anymore to college for distance running. Football provides 25 brand new scholarships annually. Basketball 11.

    Running will continue to evolve into an outlying, fringe sport. The late 1970s and early '80s are gone forever.


    Running has never been about the fame or money. Anyone who runs for that is delusional. It really is not that hard to make time for something you are passionate about. It is more of a matter if you are willing to. Running takes up significantly less time than other sports. We even spend less time training overall than cyclists and swimmers. Don’t even start with the “oh there is sleep, massage, watching your diet, blah blah blah.” That’s just living a healthy lifestyle. You should be doing these things anyways.
  • Dr.Natasha.Salazar.NOP.com
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 2:44pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    The details are in the Week That Was, but one Japanese high school coach, Hayashi Morozumi, has coached as many current sub 2:10 marathoners as all of America.

    Here is the marathon times the top 3 guys coached by Moruzumi ran in 2018:
    Suguru Osako 2:05:50
    Yuki Sato 2:08:58
    Akinobu Murasawa 2:09:47

    America had one sub 2:10 guy last year, Galen Rupp. There are only 3 guys still running professionally in the US who have ever broken sub 2:10 (Rupp, Dathan Ritzenhein, and Abdi Abidarahman) and none of the other 2 have done it in 5 years.

    This is simply amazing. And it begs the question, what are we doing wrong on the men's side in America?

    And while googling about sub 2:10 marathons I found an article from nearly 30 years ago lamenting how few sub 2:10 guys there were. Not much has changed except the bar internationally keeps getting faster and faster.

    Links below:
    http://www.letsrun.com/news/2019/01/wtw-young-guns-ready-to-replace-mo-farah-three-sub-210-marathoners-at-1-japanese-high-school-canadian-5k-record-destroyed/
    https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1989-10-23-8901250146-story.html


    YoungGuns™ (continued):

    1) https://www.letsrun.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Weldon-and-Robert-Johnson-Runners-World-Magazine-50-Most-Influential-People-In-Running.jpg

    2) http://www.letsrun.com/news/2016/10/robert-young-inspiration-fraud/

    3) https://www.outsideonline.com/2135791/how-ragtag-crew-almost-journalists-created-runnings-most-controversial-website

    4) . . . ???Interesting??? . . .
  • EPO? "Not Really"
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 3:05pm CST
    re: douglas burke
    Forum Index
    douglas burke wrote:

    I go by the top 1000 All Time List's, The 1000th fastest time is 2:10.08

    1, Kenya -464
    2. Ethiopia -185
    3. Japan -101
    4. USA-20
    5. Morrocco-19
    6. Great Britain and Spain -16 each
    8. Eritrea and South Africa -14 each
    10. Tanzania -13
    11. Italy-12
    12. Mexico-11
    13- France-10
    14. Portugal -9
    15. Korea and Brazil 8 each

    So USA is # 4 in the World in Marathoning.

    Sidenote Japan has 95 sub 2:10.00 Marathoners and The Continent of Europe has 99 (Marc Smet is #100 with his 2:10.00
    Japan and Europe should have 100 or more sub 2:10.00 Marathoners in a few months.


    So Kenya is very close to having more sub-2:10's than ALL OTHER NATIONS COMBINED.
  • Boredman
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 3:14pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    America had one sub 2:10 guy last year, Galen Rupp. There are only 3 guys still running professionally in the US who have ever broken sub 2:10 (Rupp, Dathan Ritzenhein, and Abdi Abidarahman) and none of the other 2 have done it in 5 years.

    This is simply amazing. And it begs the question, what are we doing wrong on the men's side in America?



    Mostly relying on the dirty nit-wit Salazar and his protege Rupp. These creeps were never the answer.
  • Hardloper
    registered
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 3:22pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    And I've been wanting to discuss the American mediocrity in the marathon for a while. Some really don't like the word "mediocre" because Kenya and Ethiopia dominate the marathon with Japan in 3rd and after Eritrea, Morocco, and maybe a few others you could say America is next.

    But we have 1 guy in the top 100 in the world.

    If you want to sound off with an audio rant we may put you on one of our podcasts. You can do so below


    Sounds great. I will compose my rant and record later
  • sit and kick
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 3:33pm CST
    re: Hardloper
    Forum Index
    is this really a problem? Why wouldnt an athlete with the resume of a Rupp/Ritz/Webb that has mid to short LD track cred continue to focus on track until they can no longer do so?

    What is wrong with athletes focusing on shorter distances? What is so special about the thon?
  • ric flair woo
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 3:45pm CST
    re: wejo
    Forum Index
    wejo wrote:

    And I've been wanting to discuss the American mediocrity in the marathon for a while. Some really don't like the word "mediocre" because Kenya and Ethiopia dominate the marathon with Japan in 3rd and after Eritrea, Morocco, and maybe a few others you could say America is next.

    But we have 1 guy in the top 100 in the world.

    If you want to sound off with an audio rant we may put you on one of our podcasts. You can do so below


    how can you say we are mediocre and then say that we are like 6th in the world
  • ric flair woo
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 3:48pm CST
    re: 1970s GBTC member
    Forum Index
    1970s GBTC member wrote:

    The men's marathon is about the only Olympic distance in which we are considerably worse than we were 35-40 years ago.


    Only 3 medals were given in the last olympics....and America had 1 of them. We also had the 6th place finisher (finished higher than the 2nd best kenyan, 2nd best ethopian, 2nd best of any country)

    sit your grandpa butt down and quit disrespecting our top dogs. nobody cares about the 80s anymore get over it
  • Moisture Farmer
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 3:55pm CST
    re: ric flair woo
    Forum Index
    One thing has gotten on my nerves lately is seeing how cynical and self-loathing the running fanbase on this site is. Running may not have the glamour of other sports but there is certainly a good amount of interest in it, and at least there is the decent possibility of making living out of it, unlike other niche sports where funding is almost next to none. All these comments of how running is falling into obscurity and nobody how cares are histrionic and so counter-productive to supporting the sport. I'm not saying we need to have a J-circle like r/advancedrunning, but can we at least be a little positive?
  • ric flair woo
    1 year ago 01/16/2019 4:06pm CST
    re: Moisture Farmer
    Forum Index
    Moisture Farmer wrote:

    One thing has gotten on my nerves lately is seeing how cynical and self-loathing the running fanbase on this site is. Running may not have the glamour of other sports but there is certainly a good amount of interest in it, and at least there is the decent possibility of making living out of it, unlike other niche sports where funding is almost next to none. All these comments of how running is falling into obscurity and nobody how cares are histrionic and so counter-productive to supporting the sport. I'm not saying we need to have a J-circle like r/advancedrunning, but can we at least be a little positive?


    "cynical and self-loathing" "histrionic"

    bro drop the thesaurus and talk normal.

    secondly, a J-circle isn't that bad of an idea. but it depends on your PRs