Sub - 60 400m thread

I think I need a few more weeks of doing speed training to break 30.

I’ve just realised I haven’t shared my weekly routine. Funny thing, I actually do 10 day training cycles as opposed to a weekly plan, I have goals of breaking 20 in the 5k and getting to a mid 60 quarter by summer time. I am running 30-35 miles per week. Over the ten day training cycle, for enduramc: I am doing 60-70% of the running at 9 minute mile pace for base, a tempo, a long run, and a bit of work at mile pace.

Over the ten day cycle I am also doing some speed work. I will fit in three main speed workouts over a 10 day period, I do these before easy runs while I still feel fresh.

Workout 1: top end speed endurance, hard repeat 150s

Workout 2: top end speed, 5 x 60 at 100m pace or under with 5-6 minutes rest (1 min rest per 10m)

Workout 3: anerobic endurance/capacity maintenance, either 400-600s at mile pace, 200-300s at 800 pace or 150-200s at 400 pace.

Endurance *

The speedwork is starting to pay off. I got an electronic 13.33 100 today, but it was wind aided (+2.2 m/s).

The 13.41 I did when I was in 59.86 shape was done in calm winds.

I've been essentially training like a distance runner with sprints after every run. Not the best way to train for 400m, but the plan is to run well at anything from 800m to HM for me really. However, to do that, I need to be cracking 60, so I am hoping that a lot of steady endurance runs with sprints will manage to get me there.

This is my first week back after the aforementioned 2 weeks off, and so far, it looks like this:

Monday: 9k steady, 4 * roughly 80m sprints afterwards. Sprints felt clumsy and slow.

Tuesday: Ran around Victoria Park, in London, UK. The plan was to do run there, do 2 laps, and run back for 8 miles, but I didn't realize that park had about 8 billion different little paths and possibly a second park joined to it (which might have been the same park, to be fair - I couldn't tell). I literally could have done anywhere between 5 and 10 miles, as I definitely deviated from my planned route and didn't time it or run with a watch. Finished with four sprints down a slight hill. These seemed to reactivate muscle memory, it was like I suddenly learned to run fast again.

Wednesday and Thursday: Off due to travelling making it logistically very difficult.

Friday: 8 miles, with 100m, 150m, 100m, 80m sprints. These felt FAST. I think it was my body remembering how to sprint.

Saturday (today) 9k steady, 4 * roughly 80m sprints afterwards. Sprints felt fast again.

Tomorrow: Will do a long run, around 12 - 13 miles, and finish with some sprints.

I hit 20.8 for 150m this week, standing start in flats. I still have a ways to go but it's starting to come along.

In the past I did 5x150m just under 22 on each with 3 minutes rest and still couldn't quite crack 60 on the 400...

Good to see this thread is still going

Just started up this week after a 4 month break, have just been doing easy jogging with 1 session of strides so far. Will time trial 200m in 2 weeks and start specific 400m/800m training from there. Good luck folks! Will check back in a few days :)

I'm in. It will probably take me until next year to hit my goal (sub 65) because I'm currently unable to train due to a very severe calf injury.

Yezzy, I trained a masters woman three years ago to run the 400m. She was much slower than you in the 60m, but her 100 and 400m times were similar.

In addition to the 150m repeats you're already doing, we did drills of 3 sets of 3x200m. On the 1st rep, we would run about 130-150m normally, and then increase cadence for the last 50-70m without speeding up. On the second rep, we would increase stride length by pushing off a little harder over the last 50-70m without speeding up. On the 3rd rep, we would increase cadence and push off harder over the last 50-70m. The last 50-70m would be a lot faster than the previous reps. We'd then rest 4-7 minutes before the next set.

As training progressed, we increased the reps to 300m. Sets of 300m reps became our primary workout.

OK, the week that was:

Monday: 9k plus sprints and jog back = 6 miles

Tuesday: Somewhere between 5 and 10 miles, plus sprints

Wednesday: Couldn't run

Thursday: Couldn't run

Friday: 8 miles including sprints at the end

Saturday: 9k plus sprints and jog back = 6 miles

Sunday: 7.2k plus sprints and jog back = 5 miles (meant to be a long run, but couldn't get a run in until 9:30pm)

Total for the week is somewhere between 30 and 35 miles.

Then today I did my long run, 11 miles with a hilly finish.

Trying to slowly build up to an hour of running every day with 2 hours on Sundays, plus sprints after every run apart from Sunday. I'm hoping that will be enough to sneak under 60, as if it is, it should mean I can run some great 800 and 1500 times after a couple of months of doing that consistently, then adding in a weekly tempo and interval session.

Wow HM Guy that is a lot of mileage for a 400m goal. I'm actually hitting what is high mileage for me and feeling the fitness benefits.

I do 4 miles on the treadmill after weights twice a week and a hilly 5 k on the weekend.

For my sprint workouts I focus on only that.

I think you can't be sprinting at your best right after these long runs.

HM guy wrote:

OK, the week that was:

Monday: 9k plus sprints and jog back = 6 miles

Tuesday: Somewhere between 5 and 10 miles, plus sprints

Wednesday: Couldn't run

Thursday: Couldn't run

Friday: 8 miles including sprints at the end

Saturday: 9k plus sprints and jog back = 6 miles

Sunday: 7.2k plus sprints and jog back = 5 miles (meant to be a long run, but couldn't get a run in until 9:30pm)

Total for the week is somewhere between 30 and 35 miles.

Then today I did my long run, 11 miles with a hilly finish.

Trying to slowly build up to an hour of running every day with 2 hours on Sundays, plus sprints after every run apart from Sunday. I'm hoping that will be enough to sneak under 60, as if it is, it should mean I can run some great 800 and 1500 times after a couple of months of doing that consistently, then adding in a weekly tempo and interval session.

That is way, way too much mileage.

I agree it's a lot of mileage, but the 400m isn't the main long-term goal for me. It's just a convenient initial goal as I build mileage. The reason for it is basically because I doubt I'll be able to be good at the 1500m, and certainly not at the 800m, without being able to crack 60. Therefore, I'm hoping that the endurance runs and the sprints will allow me to sneak under 60 in a couple of months - once I'm under 60 and I've been consistently hitting this mileage for a couple months, I'll add some workouts and hopefully bust out some quick mid-distance times.

I don't usually feel tired after my standard runs, and my sprints usually feel quick, but you are right that perhaps I would be faster by putting in a dedicated sprint workout. It's just fitting it all in, ya know?

One thing I have noticed, which I didn't expect, is that I feel invincible on all my runs simply from incorporating the sprints. It's like my body remembers the "sprinting style" and I run much more smoothly and strongly with better form as a result. It feels amazing, but it could all be a placebo - I don't know, as I'm not running with a watch at the moment.

People here like to focus on one event at a time because they’re used to competiting in a single event per season so most people will just tell you to drop your endurance training and focus on pure 400 training. If you want to maintain/build endurance while building speed/speed endurance then doing pure 800m training would probably be best as it works on all of those components or alternatively you could just carry on doing what you’re doing now.

Count me in on this goal. I did a split 400 yesterday. My first 200 was 31.0, and my second 200 was 34.5. I took a half minute rest in between them. Both 200s were from standing starts, and I didn't wear spikes.

I don't know if I have a chance of getting a sub 60 in race conditions. It's f***ing tough for all the non-talented folks out there like me.

Lol I’m going to try my hand at this. I used to be able to jog that time, but I haven’t done any track work for 2-3 years, I’m carrying extra muscle, and I’m over 50, so it should be a hard challenge.

Dead of winter where I am, with a ton of snow, and more on the way. Did a mill workout yesterday, 40 mins at 7-8mph, then 1-min-on/1-min-off segments at 10mph for another 10 mins, felt sluggish. Still feel lile I have speed, but 400m endurance? Who knows.

Unlike a lot of you, I will come at this from a speed perspective. Could probably burn a 26-27 sec 200m from blocks even now, but honestly IDK.

Probably another 2 months until I get on a track, until then it will be weights, drills, stretching, and mill workouts like the one I did, but hitting 12mph, the mill max.

Will be hard, but sounds like fun! Good luck to everybody

Just ran a 400 in 61.57 an hour ago.

I wonder how much the weather and track conditions affect sprint times. I ran that 61.57 in a light drizzle, but there was a heavy downpour less than a minute before my race. Thankfully, mud wasn't an issue since it was a rubberized track, but there were quite a few puddles out there.

Slowest guy on letsrun wrote:

Count me in on this goal. I did a split 400 yesterday. My first 200 was 31.0, and my second 200 was 34.5. I took a half minute rest in between them. Both 200s were from standing starts, and I didn't wear spikes.

I don't know if I have a chance of getting a sub 60 in race conditions. It's f***ing tough for all the non-talented folks out there like me.

I just ran a self-timed, solo 400m time trial in trainers. My time was 64.6. Is a sub 60 400 in a race realistic, or would my time have been 62-63 instead?

Slowest guy on letsrun wrote:

Slowest guy on letsrun wrote:

Count me in on this goal. I did a split 400 yesterday. My first 200 was 31.0, and my second 200 was 34.5. I took a half minute rest in between them. Both 200s were from standing starts, and I didn't wear spikes.

I don't know if I have a chance of getting a sub 60 in race conditions. It's f***ing tough for all the non-talented folks out there like me.

I just ran a self-timed, solo 400m time trial in trainers. My time was 64.6. Is a sub 60 400 in a race realistic, or would my time have been 62-63 instead?

You're either very close, or there dare I say for two reasons.

1) spikes will help

2) race situation will cut your time down quite a bit

Of course, if you can blast a 27.5ish 200m you don't even have to worry about guessing if you're close; get in a race, pace properly, and it's done

I time trialed a 200m today and ran 26.9, so I think that's a decent start for me. Not sure with my terrible speed endurance and aerobic shape if that will translate to a sub 60 400m right now though

howdy brethren wrote:

Slowest guy on letsrun wrote:

I just ran a self-timed, solo 400m time trial in trainers. My time was 64.6. Is a sub 60 400 in a race realistic, or would my time have been 62-63 instead?

You're either very close, or there dare I say for two reasons.

1) spikes will help

2) race situation will cut your time down quite a bit

Of course, if you can blast a 27.5ish 200m you don't even have to worry about guessing if you're close; get in a race, pace properly, and it's done

I time trialed a 200m today and ran 26.9, so I think that's a decent start for me. Not sure with my terrible speed endurance and aerobic shape if that will translate to a sub 60 400m right now though

If you can run a sub-27 200m then then next goal would be to run a 41-42s 300m. Work on your speed endurance and you'll have that sub-60 400 in the bag.

howdy brethren wrote:

Slowest guy on letsrun wrote:

I just ran a self-timed, solo 400m time trial in trainers. My time was 64.6. Is a sub 60 400 in a race realistic, or would my time have been 62-63 instead?

You're either very close, or there dare I say for two reasons.

1) spikes will help

2) race situation will cut your time down quite a bit

Of course, if you can blast a 27.5ish 200m you don't even have to worry about guessing if you're close; get in a race, pace properly, and it's done

I time trialed a 200m today and ran 26.9, so I think that's a decent start for me. Not sure with my terrible speed endurance and aerobic shape if that will translate to a sub 60 400m right now though

I barely missed it.

60.21 this morning.