Welcome to the thread, Yezzy. Looks like we're in the same boat in terms of 100m times. What are your times for longer distances?
Welcome to the thread, Yezzy. Looks like we're in the same boat in terms of 100m times. What are your times for longer distances?
Yes, 29 for 200 has to be easy. That's why I'm shooting for 26.5 (current best 27.2).
HM guy wrote:
Welcome to the thread, Yezzy. Looks like we're in the same boat in terms of 100m times. What are your times for longer distances?
800M 2:50, Mile 6:15, 5k 21:57, 10k 47:34. I have low endurance right now.
The relevant times for this goal are 60, 150, 200, 250, 300, 600.
youmaynot haveit wrote:
Yezzy, I hate to break it to you, but you may not be able to break 60s ever and that's ok. If a 15 sec 100 leads to a 34 sec 200 you probably don't have the speed to consider a 29 sec 200 and hang on in 30. Put it this way, the world record in the 200 is 19 and change, the 400 world record is 43 (ie 25% slower the second 200). Unless, you plan on going blade runner your legs probably aren't meant for sub60.
I believe I can do it, and even if I can’t it’s worth a try. I definitely think I can break 65. I have never really trained for the sprints and have only just recently started to consider adding plyos to my routine (twice a week, nothing too serious, 5 x 30 jump squats after easy runs plus maybe a few push-ups while I’m at it because why not) and 50-60m top speed sprints once or twice a week, I have read that you only need to do this 3 times every 14 days to see results so I will be doing this before or after my easy runs regularly. When I do 5-6 x 60m at 95-99% speed I hit 8.3 seconds, not self timed as I have a training partner. I am relatively untrained and this is roughly 16 mph but you have to assume my absolute top speed is slightly faster to account for my start reaction time which is poor because of my lack of training. So I think it is fair to assume that with 6-9 months of training I will be able to maintain this speed for 200m which is 56 sec speed, I am aware that this is the bare minimum speed needed to break 60 and I will need to develop immaculate speed endurance in order to do it and it will not be easy, but I definitely think it is within the upper end of my ability. I would be quite pleased with 63-64 seconds after a year of training, if I get there I get there, if I don’t I don’t but I’m still going to work hard for it.
I would consider my 14.8 / 33-34 sec conversion a speed endurance problem as opposed to a speed problem. Also my best 300m is 54.03 seconds times aftr a 5 mile easy run at 9:33 pace. I am unsure of the other distances mentioned above.
You need a lot more speed. I only got 61 off of 12.9 for 100m and 43.8 for 300m.
If you guys don't mind I'll join as well and bookmark this thread
25, M, been running for almost 2 years.
Bit of a side note; I do think I have been in sub 60 400m shape before (maybe 57 high-59) off of 800m training (5-6 months ago when I could run 12.6-12.7 for a 100m and maybe 26 for 200m if I did a bit of speed endurance training) but I've been sick/super swamped the past 3 months and have done virtually no running except for maybe some nice strides over a 2-3 week period but that's it.
I'd say I've pretty much lost almost everything and speed wise I don't even know where I am but if I had to guess I could maybe churn out a 27.xx 200m right now. I should be able to start running again in 3 weeks or so, and will shoot for sub 60 and 2:10-2:15 in the 800m over a 4 month period. I'd be pretty excited if I did that. Good luck HM guy, yezzy and everybody else!
Welcome to the thread! With that background, I'd be surprised if you couldn't crack 60 fairly soon if you can run a sub-28 200m right now. Around 27.5 should be sufficient speed to see you under once you get some endurance back, and that's without accounting for the fact that your 200m should drop close to 26 again once you get fitter.
Count me in as well!
I'm more of a endurance runner and have recently done a 16:26 5000m and a 1:16 half, and typically run 40-50MPW. Have never run an open 400m, but have recently been doing 400m repeats (with 400m jog between each rep). Did 10x reps each between 71-73s without too much drama.
your training plan has too much volume, too many on days, and nothing to increase your speed.
What you need to do is short reps, no more than two or three times a week, with FULL recovery between reps. Focus on acceleration to increase your peak speed, then on maintaining that speed after it peaks. You can't accelerate to your peak speed without full recovery.
Was/is my goal too wrote:
You need a lot more speed. I only got 61 off of 12.9 for 100m and 43.8 for 300m.
I got 25.8/55.9 off of 13.1 (rolling start) and 44.1 for 300 (TT). I had a 2:05 800 and 4:19 1500 though.
yezzy I think you are right: it's a speed-endurance problem. Pre-season for my guys is lots of short hills, fartleks and every-other-week track sessions of 100s, 200s, 300s, 400s with full rest.
Thanks Bad Wigins.
I thought I might have been getting this type of work in after my 5-milers - I always end them with some sprints of around 100m, from a standing start, with full recovery. I try to run at a sprint (and therefore usually have to concentrate on holding form right at the end).
If you told me I had to RACE that 100m, I might be able hit something very, very slightly faster, but I'm not sure. I just run them focussing the whole time on sprint technique and turnover, and it ends up at something like 95% effort.
Would this be sufficient to develop top speed? Of course, I'm doing the above after a 5-miler, so that could be counterproductive - I could drop one of the 5 - milers and just do what I mentioned above without having just put 5 miles in my legs, if that would help?
YMMV wrote:
Was/is my goal too wrote:
You need a lot more speed. I only got 61 off of 12.9 for 100m and 43.8 for 300m.
I got 25.8/55.9 off of 13.1 (rolling start) and 44.1 for 300 (TT). I had a 2:05 800 and 4:19 1500 though.
yezzy I think you are right: it's a speed-endurance problem. Pre-season for my guys is lots of short hills, fartleks and every-other-week track sessions of 100s, 200s, 300s, 400s with full rest.
It wouldn’t surprise me if I have to knock a second off my 100m time if I want to dip under 60 but getting closer to 60 (say 63-64) could probably be achievable on my current speed with a few months of speed endurance and special endurance workouts, I definitely have ways to go and I’m going to start off with some 150s at current 400 pace and build down.
Today's run was painful. 5 miles in HEAVY winds and brutal hills. Finished having averaged 7:59 pace, which is 30s slower than my easy pace on a flatter route. I was going to run fast sprints, but my legs were beat up from the hills.
Tomorrow, I will run 5 * 10s all-out with full recovery, with a simple mile warm-up, so I can work on top speed without having ran a 5-miler beforehand.
HM guy wrote:
Today's run was painful. 5 miles in HEAVY winds and brutal hills. Finished having averaged 7:59 pace, which is 30s slower than my easy pace on a flatter route. I was going to run fast sprints, but my legs were beat up from the hills.
Tomorrow, I will run 5 * 10s all-out with full recovery, with a simple mile warm-up, so I can work on top speed without having ran a 5-miler beforehand.
Your easy pace is pretty fast! Mine is barely under 8:30.
Are you trying to run sub 60 in the context of being a distance runner or are you just trying to reach that goal and nothing else matters?
You are basically training like a distance runner to improve in a sprint event which probably won't work very well.
To improve in the 400m you need to improve your sprint mechanics, improve your max velocity, and probably go into the run with a better plan.
A great workout to improve your speed an effective workout is something like 3x40m with 5 minutes rest and then go home. Considering that you probably never sprint this will be very taxing for you and you'll probably want to wait a few days before sprinting again.
"Are you trying to run sub 60 in the context of being a distance runner or are you just trying to reach that goal and nothing else matters"?
Somewhere between the two. Sub 60 is the main goal, I'd also like to keep up some mileage so that I can pop a decent 800m once I crack 60. However, due to advice like yours that I have received, I have decided to cut out one of my planned 5 milers and just do sprint work on that day - so I'll end up with 1 session at 400m pace, 1 session at somewhere between 800m and 400m pace, 1 session of hill work, 1 session of pure speed work, and 2 runs of 5 miles with sprints at the end.
I tried a pure speed workout today. Jogged 20 mins (the long warm-up was needed, it was bloody cold outside), then I did 4*100m off full recovery (about 8 mins of walking), and then 2*60m off 5 mins recovery.
The first 100m was crap, couldn't get my legs moving properly - I think I still wasn't warmed up. Next two 100m were good and quick. Last 100m was slow - I think this is because I did drills throughout the rest to see if it would make me faster, but it just meant I wasn't fully recovered. Now I know for next time. The first 60m was good and the second 60m not so good - probably should have stopped after the first one.
With your 3*40m workout - I am really bad at accelerating. I feel like I would be unable to hit a speed that would be beneficial for sprinting in that time. How can I improve acceleration?
Update
Took a couple days no running due to college restarting. Came back today with a good run.
4.5 miles at 7:06 pace (felt a little harder than an easy pace, but nothing approaching a tempo. Think the faster pace is due to the 2 days off).
Then 100m, 60m, 60m, 60m all out, off of around 5 min recoveries.
Didn't time them, but they felt quick and fairly smooth. Hoping I may have got a little faster over the short stuff, but that could just be wishful thinking.
Then a 1km shuffle jog back in 7 mins, just to clear any lactic acid before tomorrow.
What I seem to be noticing is that I feel like I physically have another gear, but I can't seem to actually access it - I can't make my limbs move quicker, but feel like I can hit a higher speed. Any advice on technique that would allow this?
Cheers
HM guy
You're in a really good position right now. Your endurance is pretty solid and just continuing to work on your speed with short hill sprints, short flat sprints and hard strides with if you want some plyos or light weight training in the next few months, not only will you probably get to or crack 60 you'll run a really good 800m. I have ok speed in terms of having a chance of cracking 60 I guess but my endurance is absolute trash (it was absolute trash when I was running regularly, I shudder to think what it is now after months of virtually no running :/)
There is a really good channel on sprinting on youtube named Athlete X. This guy has anything regarding sprinting you want to know: training, technique, whatever. Good luck man, hopefully I can join you guys in training in a few weeks. Don't know yet :/, this sciatica is a bit of a b!tch