Sub 2h30 Spring Marathon - The Quest for Amateur Glory is back!

immunorunner wrote:

Way to go reed! Sounds like you competed well. You must have a monstrous base right now, are you planning on racing a marathon this season? I've run a couple of trail 50ks and even a trail marathon and one thing that surprised me was how quickly I was able to recover from those races.

yeah, that's the plan. 1st focus is my 50 miler on April 6th, but after that I'm gonna put in a few weeks of marathon training and just go for it.

recovery is definitely easier for trail races due to the softer surface and variable terrain/muscle use.

I jogged 30min art 8:10 pace on sunday (day after) and today I ran 9.5 miles at 7:50 pace feeling pretty decent. I actually could've done more or run faster today but my left knee began hurting a little.

might end up over 80 miles this week if the knee doesn't give me any more issues. don't know if I'll feel as good after my 50 miler but I doubt I'll need more than a few days off. mostly you just need time for blisters on your feet/toes to heal

A bit late, but here is last week for me. Great to see you guys keeping it up, loads of good workouts and steady mileage in there! Really solid effort over the weekend, Reed, well deserved after all the good training you put in, hope for a speedy recovery and another good training block.

Mon: 14k with 10 short hill sprints

Tue: AM: 13k with 2 x 3k @ 3:40 / PM: 21k with 6 x 2k @ 3:25

Wed: AM: 8k / PM: 9k

Thu: AM: 8k / PM: 17k with 10 short hill sprints

Fri: AM: 26k with 60 mins @ 4:00 directly followed by 5 x 1k @ slightly quicker than marathon pace with 500 m float (average 3:27 for the efforts and 3:55 for the recoveries) / PM: 8k with an hour of gym afterwards.

Sat: AM: 9k / PM: 12k

Sun: 31k / 2h 15m

Mileage: 176 km

Another good, high mileage week. Nothing spectacular in terms of workouts, but building it up. Happy with how the body is handling the mileage and the sessions. This week will be a lighter load after 3 high mileage weeks, including a low-key 8k race on the Saturday and a 5 x 3km at marathon pace (heading out the door for that one in a moment).

Solid work Goteborg!

“another good high mileage week with nothing spectacular” week after week after week is what gets us there right?

How long have you been in the 175km/wk range?

I have a 4x2mile at slightly faster than MP planned tomorrow - love that one. Keep us posted!

Always away from this thread for too long. Seeing your 3x5k workouts give me some motivation to do my own. I have not been working out enough. Some fartleks and tempos here and there and consistent long runs but not too much speed. Currently in the midst of what I am hoping to be one of my two peak weeks heading into Boston. Plan is to run 110 miles this week (currently at 43 miles through 3 days), race a half next week, and then hit 105-110 again the week after the half before tapering down. Overall average for about 2 months of training will hopefully be around 95/week. Would've liked it to be even higher, but had two ~70 mile weeks recently because of a flare up in my foot.

Goal for the half will be 1:12. Pretty nervous about it because of lack of workouts. I did a 4 mile tempo in 5:22 the other day, but it felt pretty hard to be honest. It's also been very cold though, so paces can be harder to maintain when the temps are in the teens/low twenties.

Will be working out this weekend, maybe the 3x5k would be a good one to do. If so, I'll update on how it goes.

I'm back for the final 39 days! Right as this thread was taking off my training hit a few snags and I wasnt motivated to post. I havent fully caught up on other peoples training but am looking forward to doing so in the coming weeks. Looks like I last left off in the fall thread after 14 weeks out. At that point I had put in an awesome December and was on track for an even better January.

Since then things havent been so smooth. I saw glimpses of overtraining in late Jan where I couldnt get my heart rate above 160 in spite of my best efforts in a workout. I had an especially busy february at work, which has made it tougher to push through the tough times. But mostly we've had a brutal winter by Colorado standards. According to NOAA, Boulder has received snow on 19 of the last 56 days, which has resulted in snow cover in all but 6 of those days. If anything it's been worse where I am at a higher altitude in Broomfield, where we get hit harder by upslope storms. I truly cant remember a winter with this much consistent snow fall. Running on snow, ice and mud caused a hamstring strain and a lower leg injury (extensor digitorum longus.) I've done intervals on a 1 ft path of shoveled track surrounded by snow in 15 degrees only to return and do a 13 mile tempo on the track 2 days later. I've done more track workouts and more treadmill workouts than ever before and also run a lot of 9-10 minute miles through the snow. Its been brutal and you can see it in paces below. Then I got sidelined last week by a stomach bug that I caught from my kids.

All in all, I took 5 days off. 2 from the ankle, 1 from the hamstring and 2 from the stomach bug, but went from averaging 95 mpw from mid december through January to having only averaged 70 mpw in the last 5 weeks. Fortunately though I feel like I am right on track with where I was a year ago. If the next 3 weeks and the taper go well, I could be in similar or better shape to when I ran 2:36 last year. With better weather, who knows.

Here are the details:

13 weeks out (ending 1/20)

Totals - 82 miles, 7 runs, 11.2 hours, 2700'

Tue - 13 @ 8:30 pace

Thu - planned 8 x 1k but pulled the plug after 4 getting progressively slower

Sun - 22 with 8m 1t 6m. Averaged 6:25 for M in spite of fading hard and 5:54 for the T

12 weeks out (ending 1/27)

Totals - 98 miles, 8 runs, 12.6 hours, 3300'

Tue - 18 @ 7:20

Thu - 3 mi, 3 mi, 2 mi, 1 mi tempo on treadmill at 5:57 pace.

Sun - 23 with 4 mile tempo early and 3 mile tempo late. Really tough conditions, and it was more marathon pace than tempo both pace wise and heart rate wise. Seemed like a touch of overtraining.

11 weeks out (ending 2/3)

Totals - 68 miles, 7 runs, 9.3 hours, 3200'

Thu - Bailed on 12 at marathon pace due to hamstring and lots of icy spots. Did 4 at about 6:15.

Sun - 23 @ 8:00

10 weeks out (ending 2/10)

Totals - 63 miles, 5 runs, 8.2 hours, 1900'

Tue - 18 @ 7:55

Thu - 1600, 1400, 1200, 1000, 800 averaging around 5:20 pace, and 4x400 at 73. 18 degrees when I started and got colder from there.

Sun - 20 with 6m 1t 6m on track. Averaged about 6:08 per 1600 for M and 5:44 for T. Really solid run.

9 weeks out (ending 2/17)

Totals - 60 miles, 6 runs, 7.9 hours, 2200'

Fri - Planned 5 x 2 mile tempo but dropped out after first one in 11:45 slowing progressively.

Sun - 23 with 4 mile tempo early (in mud 5:58 pace) and 3 miles late on track (5:58 pace)

8 weeks out (ending 2/24)

Totals - 82 miles, 7 runs, 11 hours, 3400'

Tue - 16 @ 8:03 pace

Skipped racing a half on saturday because of snow and not wanting to risk aggravating injuries

Sun - 25 @ 7:54 w/ 1100'

7 weeks out (ending 3/3)

Totals - 71 miles, 5 runs, 9.1 hours, 2100'

Tue - 18 @ 7:33

Thu - Skipped workout due to stomach bug

Fri - 15 @ 7:57

Sun - 20 on treadmill, didnt feel good attempting marathon pace, did 6 at 6:07 early and then 2 more at 6:05 at the end.

Im discouraged by the lack of quality workouts since January and by the reduced volume. However, the 13 mile tempo at 6:08s is giving me a fair amount of confidence as well as having the following since New York:

25 runs over 2 hours

13 of them 20 miles or longer

and 8 of them 23 or longer

Keep up the good work everyone. Im looking forward to catching up on every ones training.

BoulderRunner - might wanna do a couple more runs on the treadmill when conditions are dicy. don't let the slow paces bother you - you're still getting in a lot of good work even if the paces are slower. think of it as an extra layer of altitude, expect you only get a mental benefit instead of the physical one.

after a good first few days post-race, my left knee is still hurting after about an hour of running so my last couple runs have been 7 and 6 miles, just trying to stop before the knee pain hits. not too worried about it, I might start icing it tonight. if in a few days it isn't better, I'll try out using ibuprofin pre-run.

and I hope I can recover from my 50 miler because I think I'm gonna wear test some more Zoom Flys this spring. will be fun to hit some marathon workouts!

That's a nice comeback and the long term accumulation of solid long runs is a good reason to be confident. I came across this article the other day and it's a great affirmation of the idea that long term consistency is what gets us to our goals, not any one week, month, or even a whole training cycle.

"Runners are encouraged to dream and set big goals. But what if, as you began the chase, someone told you: You can do it, but don’t expect it to happen this training cycle or the next. Don’t expect it to happen even this Olympic cycle. What you want to do might take a decade. It might take even longer. And it might be awhile before you even see any improvement."

https://www.runwashington.com/2019/03/07/how-a-former-d-c-runner-broke-though-to-make-the-olympic-marathon-trials/

Great article immunorunner. Thanks for sharing.

Weekly training report;

Sunday: weights (500kb swings 35#, 3x20 single leg squat with body weight)

Monday: 1mile shakeout at gym before weights same as Sunday.

Tuesday: 18.5mi - 8ez, 4@6;00, 6@5:38.5avg, 0.5down.

Wednesday: 14mi

Thursday: 18mi - 8ez, 4x2mi w/0.5 jog: 5:44, 5:39, 5:33, 5:27 avg for reps.

Friday: 14mi

Saturday: 24.5mi - 16@6:48 into 8@5:42.5avg, 0.5 down.

90 miles total w/22@goal MP pace or faster.

Workouts next week: 8-10mile reps and 10-12 K reps to work on some turnover to increase efficiency. Nothing special this week, but being able to average goal MP pace at the end of today’s long run at the end of the week felt good. Time to rest and recover for next week! 11 weeks out from Ottawa Marathon.

I've been following Patrick Reaves for years now. I lived in Portland for a while so I raced him a bunch of times. Funny thing is that he isn't that fast. in an xc 10k he might only run 31:40 on a day I'd run 33:00, and in a track 5k he'd maybe run 14:55 and I'd run 15:30. but he seemingly runs 100 mpw for half the year, and his runs are very consistent. they have a good setup for Nike employees, so he has some distinct advantages that others don't (facilities, flexible schedule, magic 5% shoes a couple years in advance...). was very pleased to see him run 2:17. and very very surprised.

looks like I'll end up with about 55 miles this week (recovering from 50k). just playing it safe. gonna skip a long run this weekend and do a medium long run (18ish miles) on tuesday.

next weekend I plan on racing a road 5k, so I should probably start doing some strides or something if I'm to run under 16min as planned

Impressive stuff, Amateur.

I held back the mileage slightly this week, aiming at the Hague half-marathon today - which was cancelled this morning owing to high winds and rain! Luckily I had friends with me, so we went out for a blustery tempo instead. The hamstring was somewhat sore afterwards, but held up alright, which was encouraging.

M- AM: 7 easy / PM: 4 easy

T- AM: 10 with 3 x mile (400m jog recovery) in 5:23, 5:14, 5:06 / PM: 4 easy

W- AM: 7 moderate / PM: 4 easy

T- AM: 9 easy / PM: 4 easy

F- 7 easy

S- Early AM: 5 easy + strides / Late AM: 4 easy

S- 2 warmup, 10 tempo in 55:22 (faster in the middle, slowed down the last couple of miles into a vicious headwind), 3 cooldown

Total: 80 miles

I'll try to push on next week with a good long run, and then look for another tune-up race the weekend of the 23rd/24th (five weeks out from the marathon.) Given my lack of hard tempos so far, I might then do another half at ~95% effort three weeks out: thoughts?

I had never heard of Patrick Reaves, but also couldn’t name more than 3-4 other 2:17-2:20 guys. Super encouraging to see a bigger guy put in the consistency and run a fast (by my standards) marathon with modest 5k/10k times. Some of the key workouts he listed are ones I want to work towards like 4x4mi tempo and 16tempo at MP. Guy is a beast.

Smart playing it safe Reed. Impressive all you’ll need are some strides to break 16 for 5k after a 50k! Let us know how it goes.

Thanks David. Happy my body is responding to the MP and slightly faster work. A year ago I was running only 40mpw and ran a 1:18 half in April so I feel I’ve made significant progress. A year from now my goal is to be able to handle 90ish now but with solid Vo2 interval work and faster tempos.

Awesome you had some friends to do the tempo with. I would be very pleased with a 55min 10miler. The tune up races sound great and I bet you can run 1:11 at 95% effort 3 weeks out from the full, which should indicate a 2:30?

Glad to hear your hamstring held up. Get that long run in!

Too bad about that half, looks like you're ready to roll. That's a solid 10 mile tempo.

Reed, a sub 16 off the back of a trail 50k would be some serious range, best of luck with the race.

This past week was my highest of the year so far and featured plenty of quality.

M- 12 with 2 x (1600, 1200, 800, 400)/2:00- 5:22, 3:51, 2:26, 71, 4:55, 3:45, 2:26, 66

Tu-12 split into a 4 mile am and 8 mile pm double

We-10

Th-11 with 4 x (2000, 500)/2:00- 6:37, 1:32, 6:34, 1:32, 6:30, 1:33, 6:21, 1:26

Fr-10

Sa-17

Su-3

Total: 75

What is everyone's goal race? I havent fully caught up on the tread but wondering who else will be braving awful weather and a quad destroying course with me on April 15?

Reed - Resting after 50k, shooting for a 50 miler?

Amateur - Ottawa in late May?

David Wilson - Some late April Marathon?

Rfmaioral?

Immunorunner?

Shane33?

First week back on track in a while:

Totals - 90 miles, 7 runs, 11.3 hours, 3300' ascent (6300' descent)

Tue - 17.5 @ 7:56 (in a down jacket, uggh)

Thu - Intended 3x5k on the track but bailed after 3k on last interval. Averaged just under 6s, not where I would have liked but better than a similar workout a year ago.

Sun (today) - 22 total, with a 15 mile marathon pace tempo down lefthand canyon, dropping from 8600 to 5600 feet. Finished in 1:27:20 (5:49 pace). Ran the lower 13 one minute slower than last year but had a steady 6 mph headwind this year. A few calculations and I think this was probably equivalent to sea level, 30 seconds fast for gradient, 25 slow for average altitude and 5 seconds for wind. More reassurance that Im on track with last year. I normally would have done ETETE, this week but looking at what I missed in my bad february, I thought this was more beneficial. My quads feel ok now, but we'll see tomorrow.

Fun side note about today. I dropped my car near the bottom of the canyon and had my dad, who lives nearby, drive me to the top. Waiting for my dad I ran into Steve Jones and his group finishing up their long run. He told me about Rob DeCastella doing 3 minute intervals down a much steeper road nearby and having his wife drive him back to the top on his rest. Nothing to add a little motivation for a marathon pace run than talking to a former WR holder.

I also have a different boston prep, quad strengthening exercise. Skiing in a deep squat holding my two year old between my legs as she learns to ski. Doing that a few saturdays a month has definitely helped get the quads strong.

Solid week BouldeRunner! That 15 at 5:49 in the midst of a 22 is a strong workout. Training out in the mountains at altitude sounds amazing to a Midwesterner. Only been to Boulder once, but I remember the canyon run being great.

I am targeting Ottawa marathon on May 26th.

5 weeks till Boston !

Yeah that's a great long run! I can't imagine what it must be like to live in a mecca where it's even possible to run into Steve Jones and Rob DeCastella...

I'm running Grandma's on June 22nd.

Hello everyone. I am back from a week training in Ethiopia (left the city a few hours before the plane that crashed, so scary).

I have stayed in a hotel owned by Haile outside of the city of Addis Ababa (approximately 2700m altitude or around 9000 ft).

As part of the Hotel facilities there's a 400m track (not synthetic though) and a few min jog there's an official synthetic track (built by Bekele, however it costs like 10 dollars to access).

Overall I covered around 90 miles this week (80 in Ethiopia). Did not hit my target of 100 miles and was not able to do a single long run, but overall I am happy. Very difficult to assess where my fitness level is, as training in high altitude really impacted all my times.

I'll write below a daily recap.

Monday - Easy 10 miles - I arrived in the morning and went for an afternoon run with a guide (29 low in 10 km by the way)., exploring the area around the hotel. Felt a bit weird because of the altitude, but as I was going slow (slower than 8 min / pace I could not assess properly the altitude impact).

Tuesday - am - track workout at the track built by Bekele. I was super impressed by the depth of Athletics in Ethiopia. So many athletes working out today - and fast. I had the chance to jog along side with Mo Farah (who's was doing one of his last runs before the half he won this weekend). Getaneh Molla (Dubai 2019 winner / 2h03.34) was also there. I could not recognise any of the runners but am sure other big names were also there as during the training they passed me flying (including the women).

What I'll say about this morning is... Altitude is for real.

Here's the workout I planned to do:

3000m , 3' jog

2000m, 2' jog

1000m, 1' jog

1000m, 2' jog

2000m, 3' jog

3000m,

Last year when doing this workout I finished the 3000m in 10 low, 6.40 for the 2000m and below 3.20s for the 1000m.

Here's how altitude impacted me:

10.50 for the first 3000m (40s slower than planned), and pushing!

07.10 for the first 2000m (30s slower than planned), can't believe how tired I was!

03.29 for the first 1000m (15s slower than planned), here's when I realised that I was not going to be able to finish the workout.

03.35 for the second 1000m - I was feeling horrible and decided to stop.

total in the AM: 9 miles

pm: did 12 miles easy exploring the forest area around the track with a guide (65' half marathoner).

Wednesday:

Some Ethiopians asked if I wanted to do a "moderate" run at the track, I said sure, thinking this was going to be like a recovery. It turned to be like my tempo effort. Covered 14 km in 54 minutes (around 6.10 pace for 9 miles) and that was really the best I could do. Altitude hits me bad and I feel so slow, but I know that effort wise I was doing what I had to do. The workout was actually progressive, starting out slow and finishing in the 5.50s (which was super hard).

Based on the fact that I was hitting between 15s-20s per KM at the track, I was certainly between 25s-30s slower per mile, than this workout was more like a 14 km at around 5.40-5.45 which is Marathon target pace.

pm: was dead and did push-ups instead.

Thursday:

am: 15 miles in a place called Satellite Field, this giant open space with so many good runners around. My first 5 kms was super hard (I was pushing and actually split 19.50 for the 5 km, believe me, it was super hard!) and then pretty much went easy all over. Averaged 7:00 min in the end.

pm: 5 miles easy (close to 9 min /pace!)

Friday

am: another hint of how altitude impacts... did 10 x 800m @ the track today. Rested between 60-75s between each. This is a workout I would do 2.30 - 2.32 at sea level. Here, I split 2.48 for the first one, and then for the next 8, I pushed to do 2.43 - 2.45. I gave it all I had for the last one... and finished in 2.40! total of about 9 miles today.

Saturday

wanted to do a long run in a different place today, but driver got lost and ended up running only about 10 miles.

flew back in the evening.

Sunday

jogged for 10 recovery miles (back to sea level)

a few take away of what I observed in Ethiopia:

1. the depth of running is incredible. There are so many runners training twice a day on a regular basis. The running culture is really strong is something i haven't seen it elsewhere (in Latin america / Europe or the US which are the places I lived).

2. the ethiopians start their runs super slow and increase the pace progressively in pretty much all workouts. It was not rare to observe runners starting their workouts with a lap of walking around the track

3. they go super hard at the track though. It is pretty amazing to watch.

4. most of them have no idea of the pace they are running (unless when at the track when coaches are there to time them). They do effort-based runs.

5. they do some weird exercises and drills before running , which i hadn't seen it before elsewhere.

6. they do Gym exercises at least twice a week in where they repeat these weird exercises ("weird" judging from my ignorance...). They look all very coordinated when running.

7. internet works really badly (when it works, about half the time there is no access at all). Access to industrialised food is also pretty hard. Not many distractions from the Run-Eat-Sleep-Repeat concept

8. runs are done at 7 / 7.30 am and at 16.00 / 16.30 pm

9. pretty much no asphalt. Nearly all runs done at soft surfaces.

10. Ethiopian are mostly nice and humble, and the place feels super safe (including the city of Addis). It is very dirty though, and poverty as expected is wide spread.

Put in a big week after a poor test of fitness in a half last week.

Monday: 10.3/4.3 double

Tuesday: 14 in a single, with a 4 mile up/down tempo, gained a couple hundred feet and lost a couple hundred feet, average 5:35 ~6 up/5:20 down, then a couple minute jog to track and 10x300/100 jog at 56-57 and closed in 52.

Wednesday: 8.6/4.3 double

Thursday: 15 with 8 x mile with 90s, averaged around 5:40 and then tried to keep going with some minute on/off but only got 5. Very tired during/after that one, cumulative fatigue catching up. Still, quite a bit of work at 5-7s faster than marathon effort.

Friday: 8.2

Saturday: 11

Sunday: 23 at 6:42, climbed ~700' in 5 miles then rolling hills through 16 then down for 5 (mostly an out and back), felt like crap the whole time so was just happy to get it done and not feel too beat up afterwards. Good Boston simulator with hills both ways on tired legs.

99 on the week, biggest in quite some time.