Sub 2h30 Spring Marathon - The Quest for Amateur Glory is back!

Thanks whid! I’m pretty stoked about it. I usually saw it work about 50% of the time, but that was typically with patients that were both diabetic and smokers... so I’ll take those odds.

Keep that achilles healthy and good luck in Boston !

Tyler_Runs_Lifts wrote:

When do y'all start trusting a weather forecast?

10 days before a race? 7 days before a race? 3 days before the race? When you get on the start line?

I'm preparing for anything and everything having lived through a few New England springs.

Not yet. I’d say 7 days or so. By Monday we’ll have an idea, at this point it’s mostly an average of the weather for mid April in Boston.

In other news, I got the stomach flu last weekend and missed 3 days of training. So this week is actually a good amount of miles still because I don’t want too big of a taper, I don’t do well off of that. Feeling confident though, had a good progression yesterday where I was clicking off 5:40s pretty easy.

2:30 is still intimidating though.

@Amateur I definitely had the knee giving out in July but didnt experience it too much by October after some PT. I wonder if I managed to get through an SR without it progressing. One run, I had my phone listening to podcasts and ended up calling a Lyft to get home. This is good for me to hear, reminder to stay on top of the glute exercises.

I went back and looked at last years weather discussion. It started to dial in to the eventual reality around 5 days out. I think the thing to be encouraged by at this point is that the forecast is for colder than average. We won't know how much colder, but at least its trending in the right direction vs the average. I feel like the last three years we've had mild temps and a tailwind on Tuesday, maybe it'll line up this year.

Last few days as the taper really ramps down

Tues - 7 @ 7:42, 300'

Wed - 7 @ 7:32, 300'

Thurs - 7.6 @ 7:47, 400'

Friday - Relatively flat pavement, 4 w/u, put on vaporflys, 1@t, 2@m, 1@t, 2@m, 2 c/d. Target was 5:38s and 6:01s. Splits were 538, 601, 601, 541, 558, 601. Pretty short workout but still a nice reassurance that I'm in the 2:30:xx range.

Coated my heel blister in super glue and then vaseline over the top before putting on my sock. Definitely kept the blister from getting any worse. Still get a lot of heel slip in the vaporflys but I think I'll be ok. I am considering some of these as the shoes feel great other than the heel slip.

https://www.target.com/p/women-s-fab-feet-by-foot-petals-back-of-heel-gel-insoles-shoe-cushion-clear-1-pair/-/A-13978943

Strong work, everybody.

Had my last true workout of the training cycle on Friday.

2 mi warm up, 7 at MP, 2 mi cool down for 11 total.

Work segment at 5:47, 5:46, 5:45, 5:43, 5:42, 5:41, 5:38.

Didn't mean to cut down: It just happened that way.

@BouldeRunner - sounds like you got through the SR before it reached its threshold. Stay on top of the glute exercises for sure. They seem so tedious to me, but I will certainly be integrating them into my routine when I start up again in a few weeks.

Take care of that heal blister and the heal slip. That last workout indicates you are there, given the altitude... ride the adrenaline and go for it in Boston!

quick summary of my 50 miler

ended up in a devastating 2nd place, 15 seconds back. 6:21:08.

winner was Hoka pro trail runner Chris DeNucci.

we ran together for almost 40 miles before I fell back and he surged, putting maybe 5-6min on me in just 3+ miles. I had some broth and some potato chips and an aid station and then got my energy back. started gaining ground back on him, ended up at the bottom of the final 3.5mi climb with 1:34 between us. it's a pretty brutal last few miles of an otherwise fairly flat 50 miler. in the first 1.5 of the 3.5 I gained back 30+ seconds to get a minute back. when I got it down to 30 seconds with about 1.5 to go he noticed me and started pushing. he probably gained back 10-15sec on me before I really started hammering as hard as I could. narrowed the gap to 10 seconds or less with about 300m to go but with a brutal, usually non-runnable climb straight to the finish. had it been flat I probably would have sprinted and got him, but it was so steep that we could hold me off and he ended up 15 seconds ahead of me. 15 seconds is 0.06%. that's about as close as it gets in an ultra.

happy with the result though it was by no means a perfect race. we will see how I recover from this, I think the marathon will need to get delayed because I really don't want a repeat of last year after Boston (hurt all summer).

Excellent run @reed! Conquering a 50miler that close to the win is something to be proud of.

Recover well. You’re clearly capable of a sub 2:30 marathon at this time.

Shoot reed, that is so close - 15 seconds for 50 miles sounds heartbreaking, but you should be proud - great race!

pretty lazy this week; covered 52 miles, ran a 5k in 17.20 in the middle of an easy run on Wednesday; on Friday I ran 1k fast in the middle of an easy run (2:52 @ the track), Saturday ran 10 km in 37 minutes, it felt good and easy, Today covered 12 miles easy.

On Wedneday I plan to run a 5 x 1 km @ Half Marathon pace with 60' rest, and the rest is all easy and no more than 50'

Flying to Boston on Friday. Training is over, some stats below.

Average: 59.5 miles in 12 weeks / peak: 86 / low: 42

Long runs of at least 30 km: 7

Miles faster than HM pace: ~ 65

Tempo miles / MP: ~ 80

Best Workouts:

3 x 5 km with 5' jog to 17:15 / 17:23 / 16:59

2 x 10 km with 10' jog in 35:20 / 34:54

15.8 miles @ treadmill in 1h30:00 (sub 2h29 pace)

4 x 3200 @ 400m jog in 10.43 / 10.49 / 10.45 / 10.49

Who else will be in Boston and what are your bibs / wave / corral?

224 / Wave 1 / Corral 1

Ran my final long run before Boston and I'm happy to say no pain. Ran 13.1 with 3 miles in the middle at goal MP pace. Ended up with a 6:08 average. Don't really feel like I did much either. Looks like my buildup may have done the work for me. I'm not sure if 2:30 is possible with this rough last month but who knows.

These were my splits:

6:41, 6:35, 6:20, 6:23, 6:18, 6:14, 5:38, 5:43, 5:35, 6:03, 6:00, 5:54

Average heart rate: 166

Can't wait to lace up those Vaporfly's next Monday.

I'm corral 1 wave 1, 677.

430 | Wave 1 | Corral 1

Damn, Reed, what a race. I get how that must be gutting to come in second after such a long race. proves that no matter the race distance that it's a game of inches. With that said, your pace is unbelievable to me. I suck with the whole "time on your feet" thing despite obviously doing 22 mile training runs and such. Given a thorough recovery I can easily see you tuning your fitness to the likes of a sub 2:30 thon.

@rfmaioral some of your key workouts are pretty close to mine (notably your 3x5k where I did the same workout in 17:24/ 17:20/16:45) and 4x2mi (I hit about 10:55 for all of them). Gives me some confidence as I've been thinking you're in sub 2:30 shape over the course of this thread haha.

@runthenight no pain is the key thing. Looks like you're fit, and as long as you're not injured on race day, anything is possible. I agree sub 2:30 is possibly a top end goal for you, but to count out low 2:30s doesn't make sense all the same.

As for me I've been playing it safe with my achilles lately. Some days have more stiffness than others, though I've been able to run comfortably after mile 1 for the past week and a half or so. I ran an alumni mile race for my university in 4:48 which felt kind of like a cruise despite me possibly never going faster than 5 min pace during any length repeat for my past 4 months of training. I went 2:25/2:23 which, again, felt like a natural negative split. Achilles was a bit sore after from the pace, but it's nice to know that small effort didn't feel like much.

Forecast is calling for what will likely be mid 40s and rainy when the gun goes off in Hopkinton. Warms up as you get to Boston, but, honestly, this is looking like some prime marathon weather here possibly minus the rain aspect a bit. Knowing weather forecast accuracy I'm betting the temps will be slightly higher and hopefully no late morning rain (current % is 50 for the morning). Not a fan of the predicted wind shift from due W to NNE, but we'll see what happens.

2230 / wave 1 / corral 3... kill me. I just had to qual in hilly San Francisco on 30mpw. Can't wait to transition from the Boston Race Walk to the Boston Marathon after a half mile of crowds.

1435/ Corral 2. Hopefully that'll force me to warmup into the race well. Realistic to try to run 6:00 for the first mile?

Ha!! A bloody Herc Wimbledon runner if I'm not mistaken!

(This man is a machine)

Hi Richard!

Wrapped up my Tuesday-Monday week today and am ready for the big taper

Totals - 7 runs, 60.5 miles, 7.4 hrs, 2400 ft

Since last post:

Saturday - 7.4 @ 7:43, 300'

Sunday - 7 @ 7:37, 400'

Monday - 12.4 @ 7:09, 500' with 3 miles at marathon pace in the middle, ran 17:49 slightly downhill on dirt. Felt great, but probably went a touch too fast.

Others have posted some totals so I will as well. Going back to the start of December once I had ramped back up from NYC, I've averaged the following (including the last 2 weeks of slight tapering):

82 miles/week

10.7 hrs/week

3160 ft vert / week

During that period I also have:

34 runs over 2 hours

15 of which were at least 20 miles

8 of which were at least 23 miles

Good luck everyone, weather looks pretty solid so far. Unless something changes I'll go out between 1:15:00 and 1:15:30, and hope to be within 15 seconds of an even split.

Bib 379, Wave 1, Corral 1. I'm a big dude with a beard and will be wearing a bright blue top, say hi.

if the forecast of low 40s and rain holds up, don't get scared into thinking it will be like last year. 40s and rain is still singlet weather, though you'll probably want to start with gloves and maybe arm sleeves.

I often think about what I should have done in 2018 Boston for pre-race. Being so cold for so long had to have cost me a lot of energy. Things likely won't be as cold as 2018, but I'd prepare the same:

I do still suggest bringing a very warm/waterproof outfit for pre-race. go to a few thrift stores and look for a waterproof jacket and pants.

bring a few plastic garbage bags, either to sit on or to wear.

bring hand-warmers (like the ones you use while skiing)

bring a space blanket

show up with your race shoes and socks in a dry-bag, and wear some beaters that you can toss before you get into your corral

any other Boston '18 survivors want to add to this list?

I've just realised that I forgot to actually include my 2018 Bournemouth time - 2:26:49. That really ought to have been a sub 2:25 but I got a little over-enthusiastic and came through half-way in 1:10, which turned out wasn't a great plan :O

The time I omitted which might amuse even further would be my 2017 Chester 2:42:27 off 10 miles per week! I'd had the summer pretty much entirely off with plantar fasciitis and only did 3 weeks training.... I had intended only running a nice steady ~2:55ish but at half-way thought f*ck it, lets go and opened up the taps, ploughing through the field at a rate of knots :D

I've only started running relatively recently, taking it more seriously the past year or so, upping my weekly miles accordingly. I wouldn't necessarily consider myself a low mileage guy currently, averaging 100 mpw this year, with a peak of 125. As I said in my first post, I'm following the Pfitzinger and Douglas plan. For Bournemouth last year it was the 18 week 70-85 mpw plan which I used more as inspiration/guide than following strictly. In that build I had 36 days with zero running.

I've certainly stepped it up this year for London, following the 18 week +85 mpw plan, and I've only had 5 unintended days off. I've followed the plan very closely, and my average pace has actually slowed as I've been doing a lot more steady running.

Slight scare this weekend was a suspected metatarsal stress fracture. Potentially partly down to running a 15 mile mixed-terrain XC race in spikes, and all of my training in in India this week being on tarmac instead of my usual significant amount of gravel. However it doesn't seem that bad, and lots of calf rolling seems to have calmed it down significantly.

2 weeks in India however has the benefit of getting some great hot-weather training in, and hopefully some sweat adaptation. Average temps for my runs have been 32-35C (90-95F) so hopefully a bit warmer than London!

Busted!

GREAT TIPS!

I'm taking a charter bus to Hopkinton, but I am definitely bringing a few of these things you mentioned.

@reed thanks for the tips! Very useful. I can only imagine how crazy was last year. What was your final tims? Something like 15-20 min slower than what you were expecting?

@whid it is a pity that we are not in the same corral as indeed we are probably in similar shape and it would've been nice to do some work together. There's one difference though - you have added more miles in your bank. I believe you can run 2h28 / 2h29 and part of of actually reaching this goal is believing - you need to be totally confident you will do it.

This is something I will do differently than my race last year. If the weather helps, I will start with a much more positive spirit.

I lacked mileage and hill training as the vast majority of my runs were on flat surfaces. I got sick and my training was not that consistent.

But my high moments this year were higher than lasts and on this I will trust.

Today I did my last workout pre race.

5 x 1 km with 1 jog, controlled effort. This was supposed to be Half Marathon pace. I was controlling myself to actually finish in 3.19 / 3.20 each. I felt really good, and fresh in the end. If this pace reflects what I can do for a Half Marathon then I am on the game for the 2h29.

Now it is about resting, having a good flight on Friday, and not getting sick. I can get flus quite often and always get scared of that before races.

Wish you all great pre-race days!!

Who wants to run the race 24 hours in advance? Weather looks perfect Sunday morning. I'm out for 229 no matter what, ceiling should be a couple minutes faster so even if conditions aren't great I'm going for it. No B or C goals with this one, I've limped through Boston once before and have no aspirations to do anything but run 229 or blow up en route.