Keep up the good work fellas. As someone who has only run one marathon 13 years ago this has been a great place to learn.
Looking forward to seeing how you guys do in Boston here in a few weeks.
Keep up the good work fellas. As someone who has only run one marathon 13 years ago this has been a great place to learn.
Looking forward to seeing how you guys do in Boston here in a few weeks.
Thanks BouldeR, this is some good insight. I was hoping to hear it'd be feasible to ride -1/2s per mile until mile 16, take a constant effort up the hills to take a hit in pace and then recover at -5s/mi for the backsides, then look to my guts for the last 4-5mi to the finish. With that said, though, what you wrote is about what I expected.
Hopefully corral 3 isn't just a bunch of pushing around for the first 400 or so. that's going to be interesting.
doing 22 this Sunday. 2mi lead in, 16mi @ goal MP (5:42/43), 2mi @ typical long run pace (5:55), 1 mi hard (hopefully 5:25), then hopefully go back to normal pace as best as I can muster for the last mile. sadly it's going to be completely flat, but that along with being on a dirt path will save my achilles some peril
That is a beast of a long run. If you hit those paces will you be going for faster than 2:29:59? I would think after tapering you could run 2:27-2:28 if you hit the run on Sunday ?
Amateur wrote:
That is a beast of a long run. If you hit those paces will you be going for faster than 2:29:59? I would think after tapering you could run 2:27-2:28 if you hit the run on Sunday ?
Hopefully it's not too ambitious, though it is almost a perfectly flat route. worried it might be but I'll update here when I end up doing it Sun/Mon. trying to keep goals realistic here since this is only my second marathon
Only one way to find out! Keep us posted.
I’m only training for my second marathon too, but if I’d done your long runs I would be confident going for sub 2:30. Don’t think I’m quite there yet, but still have 9 weeks...
Shane33 wrote:
Boston. Bib 190. Looking for around 2:20. I only crossed the barrier last November so I feel like I fit in here.
4x2 is such a fun workout. What pace? Since you are at altitude, you will have to convert to HMP vs MP for me. Good luck!
2:20 puts you right in the heart of the debate on the other thread I started. Have fun in no man's land. Total BS if you ask me.
I'll probably shoot for 5:42s (Vdot 65, 11 second altitude conversion.) This has been a really good workout for me some years but was crap last year and crap before NYC. We'll see how it goes. Fortunately we've got some shorts weather!
Sunday I'll go for 6:06s and maybe try to knock it down towards 6 flat at the end (65-66 VDOT with 17 second altitude conversion)
I'll pre-empt the inevitable "why two conversions?" question. If you look at any of the literature on altitude it shows increasing percent impact over duration. Daniels shows this in his books and also in the altitude conversions he worked on for the NCAA (the 10k conversion is more than double the 5k), however they use a flat conversion on the run smart website (probably for the sake of simplicity.) A friend and I did a lot of math a few years ago to dial in an equation that worked and was able to closely fit various curves in literature, NCAA conversions, as well as our own experience. Increased duration has a logarithmic impact. Increased altitude an exponential impact. For me and a few of the athletes I have coached, they have been incredibly reliable.
To any of you starting in Corral 2 or 3, I really encourage you to read my cautionary tale on the old thread I linked on the last page. Trying to get out at 5:50 out of corral 3 could be a bigger death sentence than losing 30 seconds early. My experience was that the tension and lateral movement caused by trying to get out fast from a slow corral, did irreparable harm before I hit Natick. I could still feel quad damage in June that year.
Whid, thats a beast of a run. No way I could touch that before tapering. Don't get discouraged if it doesnt go well.
@BouldeRunner - Thanks for sharing that information! I'll keep that in mind for when we toe the starting line. I have never run with that many people before, so it will be a test to see how I maintain my composure.
I am finally going to be able to let the legs go a little bit this weekend. I'll be racing the Azalea Trail 10K in Mobile, Alabama. It should be a great opportunity to see where my fitness is this close to the Boston Marathon. The course is pretty fast and the weather looks ideal, so all there is left to do is to do it.
A few of my teammates and I are staying the night to knock out a hilly 20 miler the next morning.
BouldeRunner wrote:
To any of you starting in Corral 2 or 3, I really encourage you to read my cautionary tale on the old thread I linked on the last page. Trying to get out at 5:50 out of corral 3 could be a bigger death sentence than losing 30 seconds early. My experience was that the tension and lateral movement caused by trying to get out fast from a slow corral, did irreparable harm before I hit Natick. I could still feel quad damage in June that year.
Whid, thats a beast of a run. No way I could touch that before tapering. Don't get discouraged if it doesnt go well.
Sounds like I should run in the tourist crowds of DC near me just to train for the first 5 minutes of this race. Do you think positioning within the corral matters (far left, center, right)?
@Tyler good luck, especially with that race/workout double. Your quads are going to be shredded from those efforts
Good week. Still on track after last week's burner. Hay's in the barn, everything after today is for confidence and just to keep moving. In SLC at 4500' till Wednesday, then back to Providence for school and will be interesting to see how the last couple fast runs go at sea level.
M - 13.2 mostly easy with some strides, 6:50
T - Only trail run I'll probably get of the buildup, was nice to give the feet a break from pavement. 12.5 @ 7:30, 1600'. Strides.
W - Another really strong workout, 6 x 2 miles around a hilly park (~100' climb and descent per rep, ideal for Boston simulation). ~2-2:30 rest. Averaged around 5:38 pace, no strain till the last rep or two. 16.2 at 6 flat total.
Th - 5 recovery at 7:20, then spun and did some weights in the evening.
F - 8 am, 6:55 and some strides, 4.2 pm 7:15 with some uphill strides. Too many strides? Whatever.
S - 24 at 6:26, 10k tempo from 15-21 at around 6 flat. Probably went a little hot for the earlier part of the run with a bunch of ~6:20s and burned a bit too much, but the only real point of the run was to get another "overtime" run of 2:30+. Good confidence boost that I can slog out low 6s even if I feel like trash.
Su - Will just do short recovery, 6.9 miles for 90...
Good week that keeps me on pace for 2:30ish. Slightly disappointed I couldn't push the long run more but not worried about it. I've done more 21+ milers on the road this buildup than I'd probably done in the rest of my 6 years of running. Next week planning a 5 mile uphill tempo then 5x1 mile down while I still have some hills in SLC (plus it looks to be 70 on Tuesday so I'll get some heat training in), then a long tempo (half marathon PR, perhaps) and 16 total for the weekend at sea level. Last workout will probably be yasso 800s, because I like the idea of running faster and shorter up till the final taper. Getting excited!
Awesome week nbskis! That 6x2miler at altitude and hills is money in the bank.
Had a bit of a scare this week with my left knee. Weirdest thing - I’ve had some pes amserine bursitis (self diagnosed) in my left knee on and off the last year. Flared up on me Tuesday then during my workout Thursday my knee basically gave out on my last 2 mile rep on the track. Had a tough time getting home and couldn’t even walk without it buckling... freaked me out thinking I had a ligament injury, but I think I just pissed it off. Took Friday off completely and went easy today instead of long run and thank God no pain or weakness. Taking good care of it now with ultrasound/ice and will be back to normal training next week for Ottawa marathon. 9 weeks away now
Sunday: weights
Monday : 13
Tuesday : 18.5mi with 10x1k w/2:30 float avg 3:18 and felt good
Wednesday: weights
Thursday: 18mi with 4x2mi with 800jog - 5:38 avg. last rep was at 5:44’s with knee starting to give out... more inner quad was super fatigued and in hindsight overdid single leg squats doing 80 reps body weight the past 5 days... stupid I know. Hurt the whole way home.
Friday OFF
Saturday : 9.5 easy w/friend. No pain at all when running. Made my day!
59mi total in 4 runs
Past two weeks have been low with sickness and this knee thing, but glad I have 9 weeks till race. Will be very careful next week and stick to road loops vs track for intervals. Goal is to average 85 the next 7 weeks before backing off.
Can’t wait to see how you guys do in Boston!
Nice one, rest up carefully and the fitness will be there when your body is ready to roll!
Well, that was a kick in the pants...
Ended up running the inaugural Azalea Trail 12K instead of the 42nd annual Azalea Trail 10K after the chase pack I was in, which included the top elite women, was sent in the wrong direction by an official. It was an easy fix after I saw my route and the actual route, but it was too late when we were on the actual course. By the time we got back on track, we were running with the middle of the pack.
Some good news, though: First, I set a post-collegiate PR for the 10K distance in the process. I had 32:52 on my watch when it rolled over from 6.19 to 6.20. Secondly, I averaged 5:20/mile for what I did run, which included a jogging section with two of my teammates who also got turned in the wrong direction. They slowed down a bit when they got their 10K split, so I did, too.
I’m choosing to look at the positive and move on knowing I put some good effort in.
Great race tyler, congrats. With sub 33 10k and your mileage, you have a very decent shot at 2h29!
@whid, this long run of yours for sure indicates 2h27 shape. If you were able to finish, that should boost your confidence; if not, there's still a chance for a sub 2h30 as the workout could be too ambitious.
@bouldrunner, what's the altitude of where you're training? Hope your 4x2 miles went well!
@amateur, my advice would be to not understimate the pain in your knees. You had great workouts but with 9 weeks to go to your race you're not in the 'make it or break it' phase. Don't risk it. Take it easy for a week, rest your body, then build again. You're on our way to run sub 2h30.
As for me, weird week.
Another one w/ low mileage (about 55). I did the best I could. But with two good workouts.
Mon - no run, recovering from food poisoning
Tuesday - 5 km (16.46) 5' jog + 5 x 1600m w/ 200m jog (5.20 avg, last 5.13)
Wednesday - took a flight the entire day, no run
Thursday - fighting jetlag, ran 5 miles easy
Friday - 8 miles easy
Saturday - am 8 easy / pm 5 easy
Sunday - Ran 90 min in Marathon Pace. Covered 15.5 miles. Passed half way mark in 1h14.40. Felt really good and could keep going. However it was done on the treadmill so hard to judge. Total: 19 miles
Good luck all!
Actually approximately 15.8 miles in 1h30 and not 15.5, I mis-calculated (25.5 km).
@rfmaioral - promising marathon pace run and solid workout on Tuesday! Looks like you will be ready.
Thanks for the advice not to push it too hard this week with the knee. It seemed to arise from doing too much work at 5:40 or faster (not that that’s a “fast” pace) on the track. I’ve been averaging about 20mi of my volume at that pace or faster so I’ll keep it cool this week and hit volume or maybe some road fartlek. Feels great today, so I’ll hit the weights and ease into the week tomorrow and trust that I’ll get there.
whid wrote:
Sounds like I should run in the tourist crowds of DC near me just to train for the first 5 minutes of this race. Do you think positioning within the corral matters (far left, center, right)?
@Tyler maintaining composure is huge in my experience. The downhill does way less damage if you are loose and relaxed than if you're tight and stressed about getting out on pace.
@Whid There are a lot of mailboxes on the left side that can be a bit hazardous if you are really trying to move around people quickly. I would avoid the far left for that reason. The last two years I've just hung right of center but out of Corral 1 so not trying to pass people.
Keep in mind, I felt like going from corral 4 and trying to run 2:45 pace did my quads in. Going from corral 3 and trying to run 2:30 pace could be quite a challenge. My advice would be to basically get out as fast as you can while staying relaxed and fluid on the downhill. You'll lose some time but save your legs.