American marathoners should hang their heads low in shame. Second best is 2:12? Seriously?

Truther wrote:

rojo wrote:

I saw this thread and it got me thinking. Why doesn't anyone talk about the US men's 1500 runners? Centrowitz ran 3:31.77 but no one else came within 4 seconds of him (Hunter 3:35.90)? Isn't that basically the same type of ineptitude? I mean a second a lap is a lot.

My intuition was pretty accurate. If you want to talk about the 1500 guys, go here:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9180954

We have a coaching issue , no understanding on what it takes an athlete to be world class times.

Athletes that are apathetic, ok with being top US athlete, working hard for that standard but no understanding to get to the world class standard.

More concerned with getting shoe deals and posting workouts.

It is not that simple though is it. We can all see what it took for Rupp to get to this level and even then a 2.06 is not enough.

George Mushington wrote:

olyrun wrote:

Top 5 US in 2018:

Galen Rupp 2:06:07

Shadrack Biwott 2:12:52

Jared Ward 2:12:24

Scott Fauble 2:12:28

Chris Derrick 2:13:08

Top 5 US in 1978: (50 years ago!)

Bill Rodgers 2:10:13

Jeff Wells 2:10:15

Randy Thomas 2:11:16

Jack Fultz 2:11:17

John Lodwick 2:14:41

Who’s Jarod Word?

Seriously forgot about Puskedra..is he even still training? His IG hasn't been posted on in nearly a year, and unless I missed something, has he even raced?

It is now clear that Walmsley is the only hope, as he has routinely trashed this countries other great marathoners in practice in Flagstaff. I also heard rumors that he has been training in North Korea chasing after unicorns in record times on Paektu Mountain, so he should obliterate all American half marathon times in Houston this month. At least that is what I heard from the ultra guys on this board.

Tim Ritchie had a decent year last year...won the champs.

Whether he chose NYM this year due to appearance fees, who knows, but it would be great to see him mix it up on a fast course given that he seemed to be relatively healthy the last couple of years - despite a handful of prior years where he battled stuff, as I understand it.

I don’t know him well, met him once or twice, but know his ex teammates and he seems solid. Exactly the kind of guy that you hope for a big breakthrough.

Hoping that the new consistency is key for him and I’d like to he can see what he can throw down on a fast course...given his half PR - philly was his PR half, if I remember to OTQ. I may be mistaken on that, though,

Its about money. If you are genetically gifted why would you pick running? There is very little support in the US and it is expensive to live here. It is a huge risk to try and make it as a pro with very little payoff. Galen Rupp was estimated to make $758,333 by a bunch of agents. The minimum salary in the NFL is $550,000 and increases to $705,000 by year 4. The NBA is $582,180. You can bust your butt all through high school and all through college and then have to get a job all while training in hopes that you maybe can make in the mid 6 figures if you are one of the best. That is a huge gamble because a ton of pro's make effectively nothing. Past college there is very little support. A runner in college best bet is to use running as a way of getting scholarships so they can get a good job when they graduate.

granted, there is extra motivation related to the 2020 olympics being in tokyo, but i'm amazed by the amount of sub 2:10 marathoners in Japan this year (16). the article above details it. its Japan, Kenya and Ethiopia. pretty impressive!

bradley strider wrote:

http://japanrunningnews.blogspot.com/2018/12/a-pretty-good-year-for-japanese-men.html

granted, there is extra motivation related to the 2020 olympics being in tokyo, but i'm amazed by the amount of sub 2:10 marathoners in Japan this year (16). the article above details it. its Japan, Kenya and Ethiopia. pretty impressive!

Its not just the 2020 olympics. Japan has a much better support system such as the Ekiden Championships which is popular and also makes it so you can run and make a living easier.

This is US rankings according to Track and Field News for 1978 compared to Let's Run ranking for 2018. Did does not always reflect top 5 times for each year.

tropicalrunner wrote:

runnerguy315 wrote:

really? then what would you brag about?

2:01:39 would be a good start

Not really. Even if you ran your second half in a record breaking 1:00:00 you'd still be over 3:00 for the full marathon. Not much to brag about.

1982 NYC Marathon

Ronald Beasley wrote:

HRE wrote:

How about maybe YOU quit writing this and go out and train. You think a 2:12 guy isn't training enough and should hang his head in shame? You think he's "only" done 2:12, or 2:15, or 2:20 because he's not training enough? Then what's your excuse for not being faster? If it's just a matter of training enough then get your behind out there, train enough, and prove your point.

Ah, the "you can't criticize anyone unless you are better than them" argument

classic defense mechanism

You see something that upsets you and your reaction is to whine about other people causing it? If the OP is bothered enough that he wants our best marathoners to "hang their heads low in shame" I'm fine with it as long as HE hangs his head even lower given that he's most likely nowhere near as fast or working as hard. Work as hard as a 2;12 guy typically does, or harder, and then maybe you've got room to criticize.

The US Sucks wrote:

Rupp at 2:06 is nothing to brag about but for the next fastest runner to be 6 minutes behind is beyond pathetic. Seriously dudes, quit reading this and get out and train!

Ok so why don’t you go out and beat them all then ?

rojo wrote:

I saw this thread and it got me thinking. Why doesn't anyone talk about the US men's 1500 runners? Centrowitz ran 3:31.77 but no one else came within 4 seconds of him (Hunter 3:35.90)? Isn't that basically the same type of ineptitude? I mean a second a lap is a lot.

My intuition was pretty accurate. If you want to talk about the 1500 guys, go here:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=9180954

For US male runners, 2018 1500m runners raced nearly as poorly as did 2018 US male Marathoners. US regularly is still producing sub-1:46 800m runners so it feels like some US 1500m runners will get back under 3:32. What feels different about US male Marathoners is the same year the world record was set in Marathon is the year only one US runner was able to go sub-2:12.

Lololololololololol wrote:

The US Sucks wrote:

Rupp at 2:06 is nothing to brag about but for the next fastest runner to be 6 minutes behind is beyond pathetic. Seriously dudes, quit reading this and get out and train!

Ok so why don’t you go out and beat them all then ?

The situation is like this among USA coaches. Salazar is outstanding and then the other is six minutes after. It seems that the other don t know to coach the marathon right. And we only have one Salazar. I think we need some new blood and ideas from abroad . Can you come up with a foreigner coach that is great on coaching marathon besides Sang and Canova? I have a coach in mind that has coached 2.07 so far. Would be very interesting if a shoe brand team hired him as headcoach.

Starts with J and ends with a S wrote:

Lololololololololol wrote:

Ok so why don’t you go out and beat them all then ?

The situation is like this among USA coaches. Salazar is outstanding and then the other is six minutes after. It seems that the other don t know to coach the marathon right. And we only have one Salazar. I think we need some new blood and ideas from abroad . Can you come up with a foreigner coach that is great on coaching marathon besides Sang and Canova? I have a coach in mind that has coached 2.07 so far. Would be very interesting if a shoe brand team hired him as headcoach.

Isn't Bill Squires still coaching?

I agree. The US should incentivize sub 2:12 marathons. How about the government pays 3 million to everyone who breaks 2:10, all on the taxpayer's dime.

This may actually be a very worth-while investment. First, consider the cost - suppose we get 20 sub-2:10 guys annually with this incentive. So $60 million tax payer burden. That would be about 50 cents per tax payer. Now consider the benefits. More people in the US will exercise - one person training hard and succeeding tends to have a ripple effect that he himself might not even realize. This cuts down on obesity, heart disease, diabetes, cancer, smoking, alcohol, drugs, etc. I bet we are going to get back a lot more than $60 million of value back from this investment.

This is nonsense.

There is not a single athlete in either the NBA or the NFL who is capable of running 2:12. And prolly very few who might have a chance at 3:12.

Sorry my post wasn't very clear. I wasn't saying that NBA or NFL players were pulling talent from the marathon, it was that those are sports in the US that you can have a good career in and running isn't.

Ronald Beasley wrote:

HRE wrote:

How about maybe YOU quit writing this and go out and train. You think a 2:12 guy isn't training enough and should hang his head in shame? You think he's "only" done 2:12, or 2:15, or 2:20 because he's not training enough? Then what's your excuse for not being faster? If it's just a matter of training enough then get your behind out there, train enough, and prove your point.

Ah, the "you can't criticize anyone unless you are better than them" argument

classic defense mechanism

It isn't a "defense mechanism" when the OP literally implies that training more would make them faster. He is using OP's own claim against them, rather than just the "you can't insult them if you can't run that fast" line you usually see. Generally I am against that, but in this case, he hit it on the head since OP himself made the implication.