new coach crushing my kid

TrevDom wrote:

Hs girls peek sophomore year. Then they gain weight and unless they control that they go downhill

0/10.

Stated as though it's a fact when in fact it isn't. If this were true we would see all the top women's performances occurring sophomore year in HS which is not the case.

TrevDom wrote:

Hs girls peek sophomore year. Then they gain weight and unless they control that they go downhill

Is this unique to running (particular type - distance, sprints, hurdles) or does it happen in other sports such as swimming, soccer or rowing?

Coach B your plan misses out on the concept of recovery. Running most days at 80-90% seems old school and inconsistent with what most experts would recommend. How is your plan a better plan than a plan with a long run, couple hard days and recovery days?

iowakidscanrun wrote:

TrevDom wrote:

Hs girls peek sophomore year. Then they gain weight and unless they control that they go downhill

0/10.

Stated as though it's a fact when in fact it isn't. If this were true we would see all the top women's performances occurring sophomore year in HS which is not the case.

This may be a convenient narrative for underperforming coaches. This and "other districts simply have more talent"

There are boys xc teams that have 8+ runners every year running 5K in under 17 min. Then there are teams that have produced no more than that over an entire decade. Example that comes to mind has about 500 students per grade and gets about 50 boys to show up for XC every year. More join after or as a result of dropping out of soccer or other sports/activities.

Pretty simple. Let the coach know that she is struggling and historically has benefited from less intensity and more recovery between workouts.

A. The coach is reasonable and will be flexible.

B. The coach is smart and rigid. They I'd listen to the coach. He has a history of cultivating top runners.

C. The coach is dumb and rigid. He has a history of ruining top runners. Pull her and run for a club.

High school coaching in the USA is rubbish.

It should be about learning how to run and race without getting injured.

About efficient running technique and tactics.

It should be about preparation and the reason the work out is as it is.

Unfortunately its usually the wrestling coach who is looking for an extra couple of grand coaching the 'runners'. They've never seen an opportunity to sweat that isn't of benefit.

Doing four hard workouts per week and then racing on the weekend is ridiculous. Any success this coach has had in the past with other runners was in spite of his training, not because of it. He sounds like a coach I had in college who burned out good recruits every year and always blamed us for our shortcomings while at the same time taking full credit for all of our successes. Guys like this are only in it for themselves and are too prideful to take criticism. You need to drop this tool before he wastes more of your daughter's time.

dunno why I'm responding to this specific post but hey, your tone gave me the urge to contradict you

4 track workouts a week is abnormal. it may during specific parts of the season such as in a bye week, but structured speed workouts in that volume mustn't be administered carelessly.

2:15 is a very fast time for a sophomore girl and if the coach can't humble themselves to the potential of your children you are right to be very mad on let's run. if the coach isn't able to compromise on the lack of performance he has yielded, perhaps it is best that you teach her how to slack off and assert that she can't run the workout.

Knowing how to slack off when the coach gives you insane workouts has saved my ass, and I would always make it up to him by destroying the workouts by the time I was in shape.

OP specifically said that they do hard workouts on the track four days per week. Since when do strides after an easy run or tempo count as a hard track workout?

Stay with the team. Quitting the team is a big mistake. Tough it out and if that fails, run some workouts slower.

Data Envy wrote:

Could we get an idea of what the 4 weekly workouts look like in addition to what she races typically on Saturdays?

Yet to see even one sample week from the coach who is crushing the kid.

I do not like my fence wrote:

Mouth Breather wrote:

She’s becoming a woman. It’s not unusual to see girls take a step back as their body changes.

This.

Now stop blaming the coach. Sorry that you're disappointed OP but it happens. Many a fast fresh and soph end up as slower Jrs and srs. It is called life.

There may be more truth to this than you as a parent would like to admit.

Whatever you do, don't be ashamed of your daughter if her performance falls. Love her just the same.

I'm not saying you would do that, but its so ugly when it happens.

soulcrushingcoach wrote:

My kid is a Jr, so the most important year to show a strong performance for colleges. We just transferred to a new state and the new coach is horrible. She was on pace for a scholarship opportunity running 2:15 in the 800 and 438 in the 1500 as a sophomore and hitting a new PRs each year. This fool has them on the track 4 times a week doing hard workouts plus races on the weekend and she just can't perform on non-stop tired legs. She has not come close to her sophomore PRs. He won't listen to reason as he has had some significant success with other runners and screams at her as clearly her decline in performance is something he takes personally. Her two brothers were All-American and one is available to coach her. How do you break from an abusive coach in HS?

Literally had a summer coach like this in HS. Everyone in our training group was a multiple time state champion but me. We did hard intervals in the summer before XC. I think the hardest one was 4x(8x100) Went from a 19:00 min 5k guy to 15:45 in 2 seasons with him. His Running Philosophy was that you should be able to run within 5 seconds of your mile pr any time of the year. I can post some old training logs if anyone wants to see.

Let me comment on some things that were argued.

1st, indoor track starts the first week in Dec in NY. Why, who knows? In NJ, it starts Dec 14th-15th area. Some coaches, like myself, don't race their XC runners until Jan or late Dec. But, there are those that are clueless that will race them as much as possible. Some runners do race twice a week in Dec. I know coaches that do this. I don't agree with it.

2nd, you have teams that have a different coach each season and these coaches will try to win during their season at any cost, including the cost of the athlete for the next season. This is not the case here.

3rd, one of most missed problems for girls is iron deficiency not anemia. I have to constantly educate my girls in it and we still had a few cases last year. I also have the occasional boy get the problem. Signs are burning in the legs/arms, especially earlier than ever before. When they die in a race they don't die slow, they hit the wall and their splits dive. The coach will start believing that they gave up. They can't recover from day to day training as well as they did before.

Do not go to a doctor and ask for a iron test. You need to ask for a serum ferritin test which measures their iron stores. The problem is that uninformed doctors will give you a hard time about writing a script for you or will see the results and say the person is fine. Normal people are fine in the 15 - ?? range. Endurance athletes will struggle under 30, be running slower at below 20 and absolutely dying under 10. Most elite college programs test for this as soon as the girls get to school each fall and will test periodically. It's important to take a test when they are running fantastically so they can see where they run best at. They should be over at least 50 to stay out of trouble. The more anaerobic training you do, your iron storage numbers better be good. OP, get her the test.

You can't reasonably expect a high schooler to know that if they do 10x400 one day, then the next day maybe they should just give a stride effort for 10x200. At that age you rely on the coach to assign workouts in a way that effort and recovery is considered.

Ask your daughter if she is enjoying the team. If she's enjoying the team, then just let the coach do the coaching. Have your daughter run big miles in the offseason focusing on miles rather than workouts. The two styles will probably combine into a good season.

If your daughter is not enjoying her time on the team, then options include:

-talk to the coach.

-coach her on your own without a team.

-have her join a different sport where she doesn't have expectations.

If I was in your position, I would probably ask my daughter every day what her workout was and try to round it out. Sometimes that means a lot of recovery, other times it means easy supplemental mileage.

Did they just move here or did she run XC under this coach? If XC was okay was it the same coach? If they literally just moved, I would move to another district and stop whining about it. If someone was abusing your daughter, would you ask people about how to talk to the abuser or would you stop dropping her off at his house?

unique to running or ... wrote:

TrevDom wrote:

Hs girls peek sophomore year. Then they gain weight and unless they control that they go downhill

Is this unique to running (particular type - distance, sprints, hurdles) or does it happen in other sports such as swimming, soccer or rowing?

Speaking for swimming, girls tend to mature earlier than boys. Some peak at 13.

Who knew that girls lives were all downhill after 15?

unique to running or ... wrote:

TrevDom wrote:

Hs girls peek sophomore year. Then they gain weight and unless they control that they go downhill

Is this unique to running (particular type - distance, sprints, hurdles) or does it happen in other sports such as swimming, soccer or rowing?

It's unique to Letsrun.com.