new coach crushing my kid

that doesn't seem right wrote:

kind of normal wrote:

You can state disregard and call my post bull sh!t, but h.s. T&F coaches having kids doing 4 track workouts a week is not abnormal. Because you don't like what I stated doesn't make my post incorrect.

So a week in your world would include, what, 4 track workouts, a tempo run, a race, and one easy day? Just trying to figure out how I would have fit two extra track workouts into my high school training.

Normal day for 800m T&F training plus a (6 to 8)K run before or after a day of doing 100s &/or 200s. That said, it feels like OP's thread would be more appropriate April 24th. If you're asking if I recommend anyone train like that December 24th? The answer is No! I do not think OP's daughter is currently training as OP is stating.

Focus on the question rather than the questioner.

Many LRCers only comment negatively on the OP.

What about the question?

That Ultra Guy wrote:

Here’s some advice, jump out of the helicopter and let her fend for herself.

How is that helping?

Elba wrote:

That Ultra Guy wrote:

Here’s some advice, jump out of the helicopter and let her fend for herself.

How is that helping?

By jumping out of the helicopter they are implying that the parent is a helicopter parent, hovering over every part of their kid's life.

Not bad advice, actually.

You chose to move your daughter who was a top 20 sophomore in the country, probably to further your career. Maybe you can move back and take a demotion for your daughter. Alternatively, you should have done your research and net the coach before choosing a school district. You didn’t do that either so your other option is to move to a different school district within driving distance if your job.

Mikeh33 wrote:

maybe it's not the coach wrote:

Maybe your kid is just having a down year. So take that into consideration instead of just blaming everything on the coach which is the easy thing to do. Maybe your daughter just can't cut it or maybe she is hitting that point that many hit and that is the point of decline or maybe it really is the coach. But the easy thing to do is to blame someone else.

Point of decline? She’s a Junior in high school! No one just “declines” in high school, absent some sort of problem.

INCORRECT!

Happens all the time with females as their bodies change.

ALL. THE. TIME.

What terrifies me the most about this post is some folks think 4 track workouts plus race is normal or okay. Four workouts yes, but four on the track is for a crazy fool that doesn't understand kids or the sport. I ran for a top D1 team and we were on the track twice a week. 6-8 workouts, but only 2 on the track. While girls do slow with age sometimes, this does sound like the coach is outa touch.

scaryfolks wrote:

What terrifies me the most about this post is some folks think 4 track workouts plus race is normal or okay. Four workouts yes, but four on the track is for a crazy fool that doesn't understand kids or the sport. I ran for a top D1 team and we were on the track twice a week. 6-8 workouts, but only 2 on the track. While girls do slow with age sometimes, this does sound like the coach is outa touch.

This "dad" is obviously one of those over-protection dads that simply gets in the way. When he says 4 track workouts, he doesn't specify it's all speed work. They could be doing tempos on the track as our team normally does during the winter so if you have 1 speed day and 3 tempos or 2 speed and 2 tempos etc.

He's upset because his daughter is maturing and he may actually have to pay for college. Imagine that, someone's body changes? Who would have known that could happen.

scaryfolks wrote:

What terrifies me the most about this post is some folks think 4 track workouts plus race is normal or okay. Four workouts yes, but four on the track is for a crazy fool that doesn't understand kids or the sport. I ran for a top D1 team and we were on the track twice a week. 6-8 workouts, but only 2 on the track. While girls do slow with age sometimes, this does sound like the coach is outa touch.

Not sure any of this should "terrify" anyone and no, this ain't scary.

You run track, you spend time on track. What else are you going to do, eat apples?

Can't wait to hear of all those D1 track teams playing Capture the Flag or Ultimate ...

Yes, some kids do slow down in HS and a different kind of training is required to keep them on the right path. That does speak to the inability of the coach to adapt. A lot of wasted talent down the drain. Seems to me this kid has a huge need for workouts at lower levels of effort but there is no concrete evidence that the workout frequency has anything to do with it. ... after she rests for a week.

You are wasting valuable time trying to reason with the coach. The only thing that may come out of that is the coach being able to convince you to defer. Change now.

don't be fooled again wrote:

This "dad" is obviously one of those over-protection dads that simply gets in the way. When he says 4 track workouts, he doesn't specify it's all speed work. They could be doing tempos on the track as our team normally does during the winter so if you have 1 speed day and 3 tempos or 2 speed and 2 tempos etc.

He's upset because his daughter is maturing and he may actually have to pay for college. Imagine that, someone's body changes? Who would have known that could happen.

Why would you think that? This board is filled with such idiots sometimes, I swear.

Playing devils advocate here.

M: 2 mile warm up, 5 x 1k @ CV pace, 1 mile cool down

T: 4 miles easy + 4 x 200 @ mile pace, 200 jog recovery, 1 mile CD

W: 2 mile warm up, 3 miles moderate tempo, 4 x 150 @ 800 pace, 1 mile CD

Th: 6 miles easy

F: 3 miles easy + 3 x 300 @ 3200 pace 1 mile CD

S: Race

S: 8 miles easy

About a 40 mile week and nothing to crush a kid there. "on the track" doesn't have to mean brutally hard.

I'm sorry to hear that the OP's daughter is not enjoying her experience at the new school. Coaches can make all the difference. My son is a water polo player. As a sophomore, he did pretty well with his team ( I think like 19-8 overall), but their varsity team was terrible and none of those players even talked about playing after high school. This year, my son is a Junior and the school got a new coach. The varsity team (which was 2-10 in league last year went 10-2 in league this year and something like 20-7 overall and advanced to the second round of the section playoffs. Now, a bunch of the kids, including my son, are talking about trying to play in college.

I don't think it's too helicopterish for a Dad to be worried about his daughter if she wanted to run and realistically had a shot at running at the next level (especially if there is scholarship $ involved). OP, don't give up the ship on your daughters new coach yet. Maybe try having her talk to him and explain that she feels that she is regressing and if she could maybe try something different. I know that in my experience, I'm willing to try new stuff with kids who are going backward in their performance.

Tell the coach that a superior coach has taken over, :) Try the best private coach for her. Change school. As you say it`s a fool if 4 times per week at the track.

scaryfolks wrote:

What terrifies me the most about this post is some folks think 4 track workouts plus race is normal or okay. Four workouts yes, but four on the track is for a crazy fool that doesn't understand kids or the sport. I ran for a top D1 team and we were on the track twice a week. 6-8 workouts, but only 2 on the track. While girls do slow with age sometimes, this does sound like the coach is outa touch.

I agree. This is crazy if it is true. I know a local coach that does this who we compete against. Hard intervals almost every day.

It's also true that many girls suffer from physical changes that make them slower in high school. It happens to more than half of them and the parents are usually clueless about it. It always throws me that the moms don't get this. Even the moms that are athletes themselves don't seem to understand. It's really weird.

The evidence for that is "I have seen it a million times"

Bodies do change all the time. Growing up is a hard job and no kid is prepared for it and neither are the parents.

At some point, athletes will stop responding to the same-old approach that has gotten them multiple PRs. Subsequently, coaches reach the wrong conclusion.

There are coaches out there who can get past this obstacle of the perceived body change being the end of running progress.

As it is the case with any profession, there are coaches who are more capable than others.

You seem to shift the blame to the parents because that is convenient. Further, you appear to have at least attempted to convince the parents of athletes in your team that there is no alternative for them. I think that is wrong.

I think that the honest approach would be to say that "This is the most I can do with this athlete. If you believe your son or daughter can do better, do try something else because I cannot guarantee that my assessment is 100% accurate. "

Kind of normal wrote:

Four track workouts a week is normal for a high school T&F program.

4 track workouts a week? For a mid-distance runner? That's a surefire way to ruin your athlete or at the worst peak them early. The best HS milers in the nation do not do 4 interval sessions per week. 2 is what they do.

Time for you to get a clue.

Ryun was a one in a billion anomaly. He also supplemented this insane schedule with 110-mile weeks. That makes a huge difference.

2/10 clearly a fake post , no one is bitching about track times half way through December . 2 points given for the number of responses .

I'm not sure if this is a response to my post. But, it seems like you are a bit misdirected.

Understanding the physical, mental, and emotional changes athletes go through is essential to being a good coach.

Girls go through physical changes during maturation that impact their running performance in a negative way. Some more than others, They can sometimes get through it but even if they do it takes a year or two to adjust. Some do not return to their best. It's not their fault or anyone else's...physics does not care. The best thing to do is support them during this period mentally and hope for the best. It can be discouraging for all that are involved.

Changes boys go through almost entirely benefit better performances. Even so, they also have an adjustment period during a growth spurt. It takes time for the brain to make those connections needed for good coordination.

None of this is theoretical by the way. It's fair to say that sometimes their is nobody to place blame on.

Recognizing obvious (to some) physical changes to athletes is not in anyway placing a blame on the parents. However, parents not understanding what is going on with physical changes that effect performance can place a lot of undue pressure on their children and strain relationships with those that can help them through a tough time period.

yesstiles wrote:

Ryun was a one in a billion anomaly. He also supplemented this insane schedule with 110-mile weeks. That makes a huge difference.

Plus 18x880 and 50x440 is definitely not speed work.