Tons of great training information in this one. Talks about how many guys he'll have at the Olympic Trials.
https://blog.finalsurge.com/final-surge-podcast-107-tom-tinman-schwartz/
Tons of great training information in this one. Talks about how many guys he'll have at the Olympic Trials.
https://blog.finalsurge.com/final-surge-podcast-107-tom-tinman-schwartz/
Future legend
great what he is doing with getting sub-elite athletes up to elite athlete range but he needs some of these athletes to progress into competitive elite athletes in the next 5-10 years in order for this training philosophy to prove itself
good start wrote:
great what he is doing with getting sub-elite athletes up to elite athlete range but he needs some of these athletes to progress into competitive elite athletes in the next 5-10 years in order for this training philosophy to prove itself
No he does not. At that level the role of genes is far more significant than that of any coach. What he can do with every day scrubs is a far greater measure of his worth as a coach. Just about anyone can coach a superstar.
Does anyone have a list of guys that he has coached successfully in the marathon, what kind of times they were running before, and where they're at currently? Just curious.
Listening to the podcast now and am genuinely curious - does this guy always talk as if the people listening are complete morons? He may be a brilliant coach based on what everyone is saying, but good lord...
good start wrote:
great what he is doing with getting sub-elite athletes up to elite athlete range but he needs some of these athletes to progress into competitive elite athletes in the next 5-10 years in order for this training philosophy to prove itself
#2 in the U.S. for 1500 is elite, pure and simple.
29 and worried wrote:
Listening to the podcast now and am genuinely curious - does this guy always talk as if the people listening are complete morons? He may be a brilliant coach based on what everyone is saying, but good lord...
This.
Mizuno fanboy wrote:
29 and worried wrote:
Listening to the podcast now and am genuinely curious - does this guy always talk as if the people listening are complete morons? He may be a brilliant coach based on what everyone is saying, but good lord...
This.
It's because the majority of the people listening ARE morons, moran.
Seems like a nice old man but he likes to make any success about himself which inherently takes away from the athlete. Joe Vigil has always done this. “Deena and I did this.....”. NO JOE, DEENA DID IT.
I think being an old man allows him to get away with it.
Salazar has a good mix. Terrence always had a good mix as well. Hansons go the other way and make it too much about the athlete. So does Schumacher.
I do like any coach that is willing to do a podcast. Athletes sound uninformed when they try to explain their own training.
29 and worried wrote:
Listening to the podcast now and am genuinely curious - does this guy always talk as if the people listening are complete morons? He may be a brilliant coach based on what everyone is saying, but good lord...
Spot on. This man is a know-it-all braggart an only because the “sub elite” group in the US is growing does he have athletes to coach. Anybody that thinks they have the secret formula is just a self-promoting huckster. Plenty of those at the high school ranks which is where this guy really belongs. Legends in their own minds
commonsensical wrote:
good start wrote:
great what he is doing with getting sub-elite athletes up to elite athlete range but he needs some of these athletes to progress into competitive elite athletes in the next 5-10 years in order for this training philosophy to prove itself
No he does not. At that level the role of genes is far more significant than that of any coach. What he can do with every day scrubs is a far greater measure of his worth as a coach. Just about anyone can coach a superstar.
uhh no plenty of superstars flame out very quickly. and plenty of others achieve decent careers but never become championships. there's no such thing as "here's a clearly talented youngster, it should be easy to turn him into a champion" or "here's a champion. it should be easy to turn him into a WR holder". coaching is a massive variable that determines the fates of these athletes
on the other hand, virtually any training philosophy can turn good runners coming from random HS / collegiate backgrounds into bottom-of-the-pack elite runners if it's applied intelligently. and that's something he emphasizes: get a stimulus, recover from it, train as consistently as possible and build.
i think it's great he has a sensitivity for managing athletes' training loads. but as far as what kind of workouts and training plans yield champions, he has far from proven himself there.
build these guys to the next level or recruit some guys who are already there and coach them to great careers, new PR's, records, championships, etc.
"build these guys to the next level or recruit some guys who are already there and coach them to great careers, new PR's, records, championships, etc."
-hahahahaha! And which Tinman group member has he NOT done this with? Over and over, I see what a strange forum of people this website is.
None of them. I think you lost track of the conversation. Put it another way: he's consistently helping C-Class runners get better but he's not elevating anyone to S-Class. He doesn't recruit any existing S-Class runners and improve them or help them to maintain S-Class for a full career.
It's great what he's done but he's still a long way from proving his coaching can compete with existing coaching philosophies which have produced WR's and world champions.
good start wrote:
Bizarre behavior wrote:
"build these guys to the next level or recruit some guys who are already there and coach them to great careers, new PR's, records, championships, etc."
-hahahahaha! And which Tinman group member has he NOT done this with? Over and over, I see what a strange forum of people this website is.
None of them. I think you lost track of the conversation. Put it another way: he's consistently helping C-Class runners get better but he's not elevating anyone to S-Class. He doesn't recruit any existing S-Class runners and improve them or help them to maintain S-Class for a full career.
It's great what he's done but he's still a long way from proving his coaching can compete with existing coaching philosophies which have produced WR's and world champions.
This reasoning is just weird. Elite athletes aren’t a different species from other humans. They’re just faster. I especially don’t understand the distinction between a 3:35 20 year old runner and an S-Class runner.
What works for serious runners at the high school, collegiate, and professional level...works for people at the highest level. It’s not like Schumacher was a terrible college coach or Wetmore can only coach college kids. I’m not saying Tinman is the best coach in America but there’s this misconception that top pros are entirely different from any other athlete. They’re not. They just happen to be slightly faster.
IF you are going to do anything well you had better talk like you know what you are
doing. When stating your opinion you say that it is your opinion.
I am grateful to add on his learning to my own. I may need it someday.
Maybe today is the day I will need it.
Great post, my thanks to the OP.
How many years most of his guys are under him? 1? 2?
Give him a couple of years and he will do great things with them.
the elites "hay is already in the barn"(genetically) his programs wont make room for what is needed at the top level. basically if you need all that work and time to get to sub elite then you will be 40 years old before you can move on to olympic level fitness.
Sam Parsons and Brogan Austin are not bottom of the pack elite runners. He turned Austin from no one to US marathon champ. Matt Llano had been hurt the last few years but he's no slouch and to beat him the way he did was very impressive.
I have no doubt that there will be an add-on effect on the rest of the team after Brogan's CIM. The marathon is a big mental game and having confidence that the program works is a huge factor.