Pretty sure that person was referring to Ultra's when talking about 'going over to the trail'. Unless I am mistaken but pretty sure the World Mountain Running Championships are not an ultra event.
Pretty sure that person was referring to Ultra's when talking about 'going over to the trail'. Unless I am mistaken but pretty sure the World Mountain Running Championships are not an ultra event.
Kip lipper wrote:
UltraFan wrote: An ultramarathon champion switching over and doing this on the roads..... no road champions would be able to go over to the trail and do the things Jim has done, no way.
Not true, Stephen Kiprotich has dominated the likes of the last Ultramarathon heir apparents in Max King and Joe Gray on the trails at the World Mountain Running Championships and that's just Kippy's winter base training where all of these supposed ultra kings get their ass handed to them by the East Africans.
Speaking of Max King, Walmsley won't touch his half PR.
If running 64 will transcend the sport, you've lost touch with reality, runners were going through the first half of a marathon at that pace 40 years ago.
I'm a huge Max King fan and really respect his track and road, and just overall versatile, performances. 6th in the steeple Olympic Trials and a 2:14:xx at the marathon Olympic Trials. He's probably the best ultra guy to go back over to the faster stuff. But Max's best performance at 100, 4th at Western States, came after those track and road times I believe. Winning WS, and setting the CR, is sort of next level with what Jim did. Btw, what is Max's half marathon PR? I do not know it.
And, I am not even putting people like Joe Gray in the same category as Jim Walmsley. If I'm not mistaken Gray has never raced over 50K? If you aren't an ultra runner, please know and realize 100 miles is way different. Max has ran several 100's, so that's a more fair comparison, but I'm not talking about World Mountain Running Championship type stuff.
UltraFan wrote:
Kip lipper wrote:
Not true, Stephen Kiprotich has dominated the likes of the last Ultramarathon heir apparents in Max King and Joe Gray on the trails at the World Mountain Running Championships and that's just Kippy's winter base training where all of these supposed ultra kings get their ass handed to them by the East Africans.
Speaking of Max King, Walmsley won't touch his half PR.
If running 64 will transcend the sport, you've lost touch with reality, runners were going through the first half of a marathon at that pace 40 years ago.
I'm a huge Max King fan and really respect his track and road, and just overall versatile, performances. 6th in the steeple Olympic Trials and a 2:14:xx at the marathon Olympic Trials. He's probably the best ultra guy to go back over to the faster stuff. But Max's best performance at 100, 4th at Western States, came after those track and road times I believe. Winning WS, and setting the CR, is sort of next level with what Jim did. Btw, what is Max's half marathon PR? I do not know it.
And, I am not even putting people like Joe Gray in the same category as Jim Walmsley. If I'm not mistaken Gray has never raced over 50K? If you aren't an ultra runner, please know and realize 100 miles is way different. Max has ran several 100's, so that's a more fair comparison, but I'm not talking about World Mountain Running Championship type stuff.
Max's half PR is 1:03.08.
I know it's hard to compare which is why these debates always go on and I used the WMRA as an example as it's the closest we have to an Olympic Gold medalist on the trails and shows those guys can go up and down technical mountains really fast when they do try, the comparison isn't fair I admit but it's a look past the usual he can run 2:06 so he can slow down more approach you usually get in these. Outside of the very few good marathoners that run at comrades like Leonid Shvetsov and burned out Salazar, These are the only real times where you can make half-assed but fairer comparisons of an actual World Class road and track runner going trail or ultra(although Shvetsov was a doper so it's hard to know there).
I just do think if some of those East Africans moved to Ultra distances, they would dominate. Mainly because, most of them have a smaller fall off in times from 5k to marathon than most ultrarunners and they dominate from every distance that has a large aerobic component already, they are higly economical as well. It's speculation at best but that's these threads always end up getting based on.
Who cares what Walmsley does in one specific workout. It doesn't matter
In 31 days and 17 hours we will know, if his workouts worked or not.
He is no elite though.
BangBang Olympics wrote:
Bang bang bang! Jin Walmsley will Beebe well under the 1:04 half qualifier with this workout!
3 mile warm up.
5 Miles: 25:21
2:00 rest
1 Mile: 4:47
3:00 rest
5 Miles: 25:08
2:00 rest
1 Mile: 4:42
3 mile cool down.
All you haters gonna eat the words soon. Jim ain’t getting slower.
1:04:00 is 4:50 pace.
So he ran a broken 12-mile workout, slower than his goal pace.
Zzzzzzzz.
Kip lipper wrote:
UltraFan wrote:
I'm a huge Max King fan and really respect his track and road, and just overall versatile, performances. 6th in the steeple Olympic Trials and a 2:14:xx at the marathon Olympic Trials. He's probably the best ultra guy to go back over to the faster stuff. But Max's best performance at 100, 4th at Western States, came after those track and road times I believe. Winning WS, and setting the CR, is sort of next level with what Jim did. Btw, what is Max's half marathon PR? I do not know it.
And, I am not even putting people like Joe Gray in the same category as Jim Walmsley. If I'm not mistaken Gray has never raced over 50K? If you aren't an ultra runner, please know and realize 100 miles is way different. Max has ran several 100's, so that's a more fair comparison, but I'm not talking about World Mountain Running Championship type stuff.
Max's half PR is 1:03.08.
I know it's hard to compare which is why these debates always go on and I used the WMRA as an example as it's the closest we have to an Olympic Gold medalist on the trails and shows those guys can go up and down technical mountains really fast when they do try, the comparison isn't fair I admit but it's a look past the usual he can run 2:06 so he can slow down more approach you usually get in these. Outside of the very few good marathoners that run at comrades like Leonid Shvetsov and burned out Salazar, These are the only real times where you can make half-assed but fairer comparisons of an actual World Class road and track runner going trail or ultra(although Shvetsov was a doper so it's hard to know there).
I just do think if some of those East Africans moved to Ultra distances, they would dominate. Mainly because, most of them have a smaller fall off in times from 5k to marathon than most ultrarunners and they dominate from every distance that has a large aerobic component already, they are higly economical as well. It's speculation at best but that's these threads always end up getting based on.
Salazar dominated at the most prestigious and competitive Ultra that there is. He was 10 years past his prime and I believe more than 5 years had passed since he last competed. His lungs were destroyed by exercise induced asthma and after 30 miles in the race he had no nutrition. The officials assured him there would be some on the course and they didn't have anything and he still destroyed them. It is no contest in terms of ability. Yes if there is very technical trail someone who is practised will be able to avoid falls but that's about it in terms of the ultra runners advantage. There is a reason they aren't top level road runners. If they could be they'd be on the roads where there is far more money in the sport. Use your brain.
Kip lipper wrote:
Max's half PR is 1:03.08.
I know it's hard to compare which is why these debates always go on and I used the WMRA as an example as it's the closest we have to an Olympic Gold medalist on the trails and shows those guys can go up and down technical mountains really fast when they do try, the comparison isn't fair I admit but it's a look past the usual he can run 2:06 so he can slow down more approach you usually get in these. Outside of the very few good marathoners that run at comrades like Leonid Shvetsov and burned out Salazar, These are the only real times where you can make half-assed but fairer comparisons of an actual World Class road and track runner going trail or ultra(although Shvetsov was a doper so it's hard to know there).
I just do think if some of those East Africans moved to Ultra distances, they would dominate. Mainly because, most of them have a smaller fall off in times from 5k to marathon than most ultrarunners and they dominate from every distance that has a large aerobic component already, they are higly economical as well. It's speculation at best but that's these threads always end up getting based on.
I get what you're trying to say here but these comparisons are just so pointless. Even within ultra's races vary so much and its not just due to elevation or surface, theres tons of variables. Thats why Walmsley even though he can throw down at some races get his ass handed to him at long mountain races. Sure some East Africans could dominate, but to do it consistently enough for it to even matter they would need to focus on it for years. Its not just do some long runs in the mountains and you are good to go. Even with all the hype around Walmsley and how many 100's has he 'dominated'? A grand total of 1.
Takinadump wrote:
Salazar dominated at the most prestigious and competitive Ultra that there is. He was 10 years past his prime and I believe more than 5 years had passed since he last competed. His lungs were destroyed by exercise induced asthma and after 30 miles in the race he had no nutrition. The officials assured him there would be some on the course and they didn't have anything and he still destroyed them. It is no contest in terms of ability. Yes if there is very technical trail someone who is practised will be able to avoid falls but that's about it in terms of the ultra runners advantage. There is a reason they aren't top level road runners. If they could be they'd be on the roads where there is far more money in the sport. Use your brain.
Let us know when a road/track guy wins UTMB without years of training for ultra's. We'll all be waiting.
How about Tim Tollefson? Olympic trials marathon twice and got 3rd at UTMB twice where he defeated Walmsley in direct head-to-head competition. That was like 2 years ago. Did they even dope test at Western State this year?
well sort of wrote:
Kip lipper wrote:
Max's half PR is 1:03.08.
I know it's hard to compare which is why these debates always go on and I used the WMRA as an example as it's the closest we have to an Olympic Gold medalist on the trails and shows those guys can go up and down technical mountains really fast when they do try, the comparison isn't fair I admit but it's a look past the usual he can run 2:06 so he can slow down more approach you usually get in these. Outside of the very few good marathoners that run at comrades like Leonid Shvetsov and burned out Salazar, These are the only real times where you can make half-assed but fairer comparisons of an actual World Class road and track runner going trail or ultra(although Shvetsov was a doper so it's hard to know there).
I just do think if some of those East Africans moved to Ultra distances, they would dominate. Mainly because, most of them have a smaller fall off in times from 5k to marathon than most ultrarunners and they dominate from every distance that has a large aerobic component already, they are higly economical as well. It's speculation at best but that's these threads always end up getting based on.
I get what you're trying to say here but these comparisons are just so pointless. Even within ultra's races vary so much and its not just due to elevation or surface, theres tons of variables. Thats why Walmsley even though he can throw down at some races get his ass handed to him at long mountain races. Sure some East Africans could dominate, but to do it consistently enough for it to even matter they would need to focus on it for years. Its not just do some long runs in the mountains and you are good to go. Even with all the hype around Walmsley and how many 100's has he 'dominated'? A grand total of 1.
IGF1LR3 wrote:
How about Tim Tollefson? Olympic trials marathon twice and got 3rd at UTMB twice where he defeated Walmsley in direct head-to-head competition. That was like 2 years ago.
Did they even dope test at Western State this year?
well sort of wrote:
I get what you're trying to say here but these comparisons are just so pointless. Even within ultra's races vary so much and its not just due to elevation or surface, theres tons of variables. Thats why Walmsley even though he can throw down at some races get his ass handed to him at long mountain races. Sure some East Africans could dominate, but to do it consistently enough for it to even matter they would need to focus on it for years. Its not just do some long runs in the mountains and you are good to go. Even with all the hype around Walmsley and how many 100's has he 'dominated'? A grand total of 1.
The you have it and Tim is no one on the roads. You'll be waiting a long time for a true road elite to race UTMB since they only just now started offering prize money and it isn't significant. But at least I won't be waiting forever like you will to have an ultra guy dominate a marathon major, you know, since they can't hack it on the roads.
i think they dropped testing.
wouldn't be surprised if he's on the juice - this is a guy who was involved in a cheating scandal and tossed from the air force (and I think had a DUI, but separate from the cheating). could see him justify doping if he thinks others dope.
dopedude wrote:
i think they dropped testing.
wouldn't be surprised if he's on the juice - this is a guy who was involved in a cheating scandal and tossed from the air force (and I think had a DUI, but separate from the cheating). could see him justify doping if he thinks others dope.
That's how he justified cheating at the AF. He also tried to justify his DUI.
Who cares? Honestly?...people need to worry about themselves and not others.
To the topic, he will go home devasted and waiting on his door step when he returns home will be his LOVERS T.Puzey and E.Senseman welcoming him back with no encouragment except..... a pat on the behind. Good game brah!
Poor argument since you will probably find literally no ultra runner to ever suggest that an ultra runner turned road would ever win a marathon major unless of course that person had started on the road. On the other hand we have plenty of morons suggesting road athletes would have an easy time dominating 100 mile mountain events. Sure you can make excuses about no money and how other road/track guys that have been breaking into ultras aren’t true elites but even if they aren’t just going off of their example gives us plenty indication that while they can enjoy some initial success, it is still apparent that it does take a different approach.
I am not denying elite athletes superior fitness all I am saying is it’s not as easy as people make it sound. The 100 mile distance is unique and requires specific training and racing strategy.
Whaevedoggy wrote:
people need to worry about themselves and not others.
That would be way too scary.
Takinadump wrote:
Salazar dominated at the most prestigious and competitive Ultra that there is. He was 10 years past his prime and I believe more than 5 years had passed since he last competed. His lungs were destroyed by exercise induced asthma.
That is not a thing that happens.
Mizuno fanboy wrote:
Like a moth to flame is mizuno idiotboy to a thread about Walmsley!!!
I’m pretty sure they still test.
Moo Goo wrote:
He is no elite though.
He gets paid to run though.
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