Floyd Landis QOD is a joke lacking personal responsibility

Stranger days wrote:

Does anyone find it strange that this site is so anti doping and now has aligned itself when a world class admitted doper because he is interested in advertising on the site?

As per the interview, this site isn't really anti-doping, only for certain entities (notably Russians).

Wrong wrong wrote:

He said that they were complicit.

But the people who weren't doping were not complicit.

Him saying they were complicit is like saying every distance runner is complicit. No, they are not.

Only the ones promoting (saying how good it is and how much it helps) and actually taking part in the doping are complicit.

Well, depending on where you live (Ohio for example), you can go to jail for being complicit that way, if you are aware of a crime but didn't act on it at all.

OP, Bassons was in like 1999. Way before Landis. Do you honestly think anyone like him still existed in Floyd's era? Most don't. Peleton 100% tainted.

Wrong wrong wrote:

casual obsever wrote:

But he didn't put as much blame on them as the dopers, he merely said that everyone was involved because everyone knew.

He said that they were complicit.

But the people who weren't doping were not complicit.

Him saying they were complicit is like saying every distance runner is complicit. No, they are not.

Only the ones promoting (saying how good it is and how much it helps) and actually taking part in the doping are complicit.

If you do nothing to prevent it then you endorse it. Clean athletes roll over and jump on toothless PR campaigns with Social Media hashtags but they don't actually take action to effect change. Talking about how much you're tested doesn't mean or do dick, how many times were Armstrong and Marion Jones tested? They're gutless, going along to get along.

Bad Exmaples wrote:

OP, Bassons was in like 1999. Way before Landis. Do you honestly think anyone like him still existed in Floyd's era? Most don't. Peleton 100% tainted.

I watched a documentary on drugs in pro cycling back in ~2001. They interviewed a team manager, who had managed many teams and literally hundreds of cyclists, he said that he could count on one hand the number of pros that he managed who were clean.

It isn't any different in TnF/road racing, and is probably worse. USADA and WADA are worthless.

Indeed. Only some running fans are still in denial, but no cycling fans.

Angry Willy wrote:

Bad Exmaples wrote:

OP, Bassons was in like 1999. Way before Landis. Do you honestly think anyone like him still existed in Floyd's era? Most don't. Peleton 100% tainted.

I watched a documentary on drugs in pro cycling back in ~2001. They interviewed a team manager, who had managed many teams and literally hundreds of cyclists, he said that he could count on one hand the number of pros that he managed who were clean.

It isn't any different in TnF/road racing, and is probably worse. USADA and WADA are worthless.

e.g.

. . .

yes correct wrote:

Correct. With people like Kipchoge, Farah, Ayana, Dibaba, etc. athletics is obviously and ridiculously dirty. True controls have to be implemented or athletics will simply be thought of as fake as WWE wrestling by everyone (which I and many others already see it as).

Your argument loses a lot of credibility when you compare a scripted event, with a predetermined outcome, to an athletic contest where all the top performers are enhanced - and that goes for all sports, not just track and field.

I read Tyler Hamilton’s & David Millar’s books on cycling; both were busted.

Both thought the sport can only be made clean with total commitment (which isn’t there yet) at all levels.

Both thought great performances were possible without drugs, but only with more effort than it would take with drugs.

My own take is that drugs usually work, but only for a little while. The rest of your life, they’re a big negative.

No quick solution seems likely. Meanwhile non-athletes use far more of these drugs than are used in sport. We worship success, but not good health. We praise achievement as an end in itself, but I see many great stories throughout the pack in every race. Build from the bottom.

who let the tar in? wrote:

Elixer wrote:

That's only half the picture as it ignores results from transfusions which will have a normal ret count. Extremes will not paint the full picture either as what defines extreme? Is it 3 times normal, 6 times normal or just over normal?

tf are you talking about? the results will not ignore the transfusions. any transfusion is going to make your ret count plummet.

Cute Username, what if you are microdosing EPO with transfusions just like Floyd mentioned doing in his book?

"Everyone" doesn't care wrote:

yes correct wrote:

Correct. With people like Kipchoge, Farah, Ayana, Dibaba, etc. athletics is obviously and ridiculously dirty. True controls have to be implemented or athletics will simply be thought of as fake as WWE wrestling by everyone (which I and many others already see it as).

Your argument loses a lot of credibility when you compare a scripted event, with a predetermined outcome, to an athletic contest where all the top performers are enhanced - and that goes for all sports, not just track and field.

Actually, no. Scripted outcome is as much to chance as an incredibly and permanently tilted playing field. It's scripting by another name.

Pay to play, not win wrote:

You're assuming a cyclist could get into the TdF peloton without doping in those days, while most likely, they couldn't. Armstrong didn't win 7 times because he doped, he won 7 times because he doped better than those other 200 guys.

This is what I was thinking. I don't take Landis's statement here to be so much 'shameful' as ignorant, insofar as he doesn't realize that the 'non-complicit' types were shut out of the highest levels in the first place. Basically, he is guilty of a kind of survivorship bias (only examining those cases who already made it through a certain level of selection).

Also, when Landis says that everybody is complicit (whether or not this is true), that is not the same as him saying that everybody was equally guilty. To take an extreme example, a mafioso's wife might be complicit, but that doesn't mean she is as guilty as the guy doing the crimes.

...a world class admitted doper because he is interested in advertising on the site?

And a world class jerk. Big surprise that a crooked drug cheat like Landis went into the one of the most evil vice rackets in the country: the Colorado marijuana industry. Colorado's cannabis pushers are producing extremely powerful, addictive drugs and marketing them as "recreational" and "harmless" pot. I live here and deal with the ruined lives, derailed careers, disfunction, crime, and sleaze of Colorado's legal cannabis every day. I have no idea why Letsrun would take ads from any drug dealer, but from a lying criminal like Landis? The guy is cancer. I wouldn't touch his money without a Hazmat suit and a bucket of holy water.