mo in 2012 and 16 no question
mo in 2012 and 16 no question
Sand Dunes wrote:
Herb Elliott never ran a 2000m race I believe in his prime(correct me if I'm wrong). But he could have easily broken the world record at the time for it. He never raced the 3000m/5000m seriously, but with his 800m speed and his strength/endurance he had he would have easily beaten jazy. Elliott 3:35(would have been much faster in a rabbitted race, probably closer to a 3:30) 1500m = 7:40 3000m and 13:21 5000m times. The way Herb Elliott crushed Jazy at the 1960 Olympic's, I could easily see herb doing that again in 64 if he didn't retire so early.
Herb Elliott was clearly the best runner of his time with only Peter Snell who could be close to him.
But since Elliott retired in 1962, I still think Michel Jazy would be favourite for the "3000m event" in the 1964 OG.
Did Peter Snell ever run a 3000m race? He certainly had the stamina.
2016 maybe Kejelcha, did clock 728 straight b
After
Subway Surfers wrote:
2016 maybe Kejelcha, did clock 728 straight b
After
The problem with kejelcha is that he has no kick. If it is a tactical race, he would get out kicked.
Not Again wrote:
Coevett wrote:
Are you assuming that the 3000m would take place instead of the 5000m? Or would it replace the 1500m? Coghlan would compete in the 3000m in 1980 but Ovett the two mile WR holder wouldn't? Or are you saying Coghlan would beat Ovett over 3000m? Ovett only lost to Treacy (who I think finished 5th in the Moscow 5000m despite collapsing in the semi-final) the week after because he was arrogant, knackered, and suffering from a cold.
What if all the middle-distance guys were training for and competing in the 3000m?
72 Keino
76 Dixon/Walker/Foster/Moorcroft?
80 - Ovett
84 - Coe
88 - Cram
You are such a ridiculous homer. Aouita would’ve mopped the floor with your beloved Brits in ‘84 and ‘88.
No. Aouita wouldn't even enter the 3000m if any of the Brits were going to be lining up.
And my list was on my hypothetical terms - no 1500m or 5000m. So all the 1500m guys and 5000m guys would be training (all their careers most likely) for the 3000m. Only a smeg head who doesn't know anything about track and field would assume that in such a parallel universe, the guy who was the best at the 3000m in our world, would still be the best (in this case a doped up Aouita who ran everything from 800m to 10000m).
Ovett would clearly have won the 3000m in Moscow even in our world, let alone if he'd been training just for the 3000m for years beforehand. Of course, Coe might have matched him, but from the evidence we have, Ovett demonstrated a better endurance, even as a schoolboy. However, I'm sure Coe if he had been focused 100% on the 3000m would have been hard to beat for anyone in the 80s, and that's why I picked him for 84. Cram would have been a natural for the 3000m. He was a former 2000m WR holder when an 800/Miler. He ran a 3:2x 5000m on a windy Gateshead track late season in 89 when he was already a shadow of his 85 peak. Also, I've read it was speed work that Cram had a problem with regarding his calf injury. He blew out his calf before Seoul attempting the 1000m world record (utter stupidity) and when he tried to move up to the 5000m in 1993 he had his best 1500m result for five years at the Dream Mile (ironically persuading him to switch back to the 15000m, and subsequently have his crippling calf problems return).
Of course, guys like Scott and Walker would be in the mix too in the 80s.
*Cram ran 13:28 at Gateshead in 98
** in 89, lol.
Sand Dunes wrote:
Subway Surfers wrote:
2016 maybe Kejelcha, did clock 728 straight b
After
The problem with kejelcha is that he has no kick. If it is a tactical race, he would get out kicked.
True, but If he went all out. BTW WTH happened to my post??
With no 1500m or 5000m to run, he was going to run this hypothetical 3000m race in at least ‘84, especially with Cruz at the top of his game in the 800m, and Coe not too far behind. What Ovett would’ve done in ‘80 is irrelevant, as this is about ‘84 and ‘88. I’m taking the guy who had something like 5 out of the top 7 3000m times ever by the time he took down Rono’s WR in ‘89. That’s a far stronger resume than all of this conjecture you’re using with Coe and Cram. Aouita wouldn’t have struggled with either of them over 3000m.
Lopes’ Slopes wrote:
With no 1500m or 5000m to run, he was going to run this hypothetical 3000m race in at least ‘84, especially with Cruz at the top of his game in the 800m, and Coe not too far behind. What Ovett would’ve done in ‘80 is irrelevant, as this is about ‘84 and ‘88. I’m taking the guy who had something like 5 out of the top 7 3000m times ever by the time he took down Rono’s WR in ‘89. That’s a far stronger resume than all of this conjecture you’re using with Coe and Cram. Aouita wouldn’t have struggled with either of them over 3000m.
Aouita would not be scared of Cram or Coe over 3000m.
He was head and shoulders above everyone over that distance.
He may have avoided races agains the British runners in the 1500m and mile (but logically it could also be argued the Brits avoided him as well).
But over 3000m Aouita wouldn't be worried. He has the same speed and greater stamina as any of the Brits.
Bane wrote:
Lopes’ Slopes wrote:
With no 1500m or 5000m to run, he was going to run this hypothetical 3000m race in at least ‘84, especially with Cruz at the top of his game in the 800m, and Coe not too far behind. What Ovett would’ve done in ‘80 is irrelevant, as this is about ‘84 and ‘88. I’m taking the guy who had something like 5 out of the top 7 3000m times ever by the time he took down Rono’s WR in ‘89. That’s a far stronger resume than all of this conjecture you’re using with Coe and Cram. Aouita wouldn’t have struggled with either of them over 3000m.
Aouita would not be scared of Cram or Coe over 3000m.
He was head and shoulders above everyone over that distance.
He may have avoided races agains the British runners in the 1500m and mile (but logically it could also be argued the Brits avoided him as well).
But over 3000m Aouita wouldn't be worried. He has the same speed and greater stamina as any of the Brits.
He didn't have the same speed as the Brits or he wouldn't have lost to them whenever he faced them at their best.
He tried to break the WR in virtually every race he ran from 85 onwards (possible because of the stuff he was almost certainly on). Thus he ended up with a faster 1500m than any of them, but it's crazy to think that they weren't capable of faster. His 3:29 time represented likely his absolute best.
Yes, he would have beaten anyone over 3000m if for some reason the 800m and 1500m had been cancelled at the last moment in 84 and 88 and replaced with a 3000m, but if everybody spent years training for the 3000m it would be a lot closer. Aouita was great at the 3000m because he was just about the only elite 1500/5000 doubler in those days.. Since...ooohhh...around 1992/93 when everybody suddenly became 1500/5000m men instead of 800/1500, his 3000m times quickly became ordinary. Not sure he's even ranked in the top 50 now, for an event that's rarely run.
Aouita trained for the 1500 and 5000m. When it came to the major championships, apart from 83 and 88, he decided to bottle out of facing the Brits in the blue-ribband (and his favorite event by his own admission) and opt for the 5000m.
When Ovett moved up to race Henry Rono over two miles, he was in no way a 3000 or 5000m runner. He was more of a 400m runner still at that time than a long distance runner. Yet he broke the WR and made Rono look silly.
Bane wrote:
He may have avoided races agains the British runners in the 1500m and mile (but logically it could also be argued the Brits avoided him as well).
Are you saying Coe, Cram, and Ovett avoided Aouita by not racing the 5000m? Hmmm...
Aouita had plenty of chances to race them at major championships. In 83 he pipped Ovett who had ran the worst race of his life and was coming back from an injury that would have ended most careers, and was soundly thrashed (and outkicked) by Cram (and Steve Scott). In 88 he won a bronze in the 800m and pulled out of the 1500m rather than lose out to crippled Cram and Elliott. Between those years he opted for the 5000m because it was the event 'he had the best chance to win in' (his words).
Coevett wrote:
excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses, excuses
Coevett, you are referencing the wrong Aouita. This is the Aouita we are talking about in this thread. The guy with 1:43 speed, multiple Olympic medals, and World Records, The guy who crushed the souls of Coe, Cram and Ovett.
Do some research before you spout of silliness, you are losing respect on these boards.
Frank O'Mara would have been a legit threat in 1988 or 1992.
Bane wrote:
Lopes’ Slopes wrote:
With no 1500m or 5000m to run, he was going to run this hypothetical 3000m race in at least ‘84, especially with Cruz at the top of his game in the 800m, and Coe not too far behind. What Ovett would’ve done in ‘80 is irrelevant, as this is about ‘84 and ‘88. I’m taking the guy who had something like 5 out of the top 7 3000m times ever by the time he took down Rono’s WR in ‘89. That’s a far stronger resume than all of this conjecture you’re using with Coe and Cram. Aouita wouldn’t have struggled with either of them over 3000m.
Aouita would not be scared of Cram or Coe over 3000m.
He was head and shoulders above everyone over that distance.
He may have avoided races agains the British runners in the 1500m and mile (but logically it could also be argued the Brits avoided him as well).
But over 3000m Aouita wouldn't be worried. He has the same speed and greater stamina as any of the Brits.
Aouita would piss his pants and would of been demolished. Also, if he was here now I’d knock him out and stand on his windpipe as I crush his face with by boots.
True story missis wrote:
Bane wrote:
Aouita would not be scared of Cram or Coe over 3000m.
He was head and shoulders above everyone over that distance.
He may have avoided races agains the British runners in the 1500m and mile (but logically it could also be argued the Brits avoided him as well).
But over 3000m Aouita wouldn't be worried. He has the same speed and greater stamina as any of the Brits.
Aouita would piss his pants and would of been demolished. Also, if he was here now I’d knock him out and stand on his windpipe as I crush his face with by boots.
Shut up.
Coevett wrote:
Bane wrote:
He may have avoided races agains the British runners in the 1500m and mile (but logically it could also be argued the Brits avoided him as well).
Are you saying Coe, Cram, and Ovett avoided Aouita by not racing the 5000m? Hmmm...
Aouita had plenty of chances to race them at major championships. In 83 he pipped Ovett who had ran the worst race of his life and was coming back from an injury that would have ended most careers, and was soundly thrashed (and outkicked) by Cram (and Steve Scott). In 88 he won a bronze in the 800m and pulled out of the 1500m rather than lose out to crippled Cram and Elliott. Between those years he opted for the 5000m because it was the event 'he had the best chance to win in' (his words).
Aouita was inexperienced at major championships in 1983. He took the lead with 400m left which was suicidal. He also ran a poor tactical race.
He almost caught Cram in Nice 1985 when Cram was at his absolute best.
How many times did Cram break 3:30? How many times did Aouita break 3:30?
Filip or Jakob
(in 2020)
Norwegians as always...
1980 - Grete Waitz
1984 - Grete Waitz
1988 - Ingrid Kristiansen
1992 - Ingrid Kristiansen