Has Jakob surpassed his brothers?

douglas burke wrote:

a more realistic goal is Rodal's Norwegian Record of 1:42.58 which will be tough for Jakob, but it is doable

He probably doesn’t have the speed, even with year-round specific training. I could see a sub-1:44 a la Webb but 1:42 is the exclusive property of true 800 runners.

douglas burke wrote:

Jakob is a EL G, K.Bekele, H. Gebresellassie, E. Kipchoge type Talent, He is a level above MoFarah, B. Lagat, Mourhit, and Paul Kipsielie Koech, he has not yet reached the level of any of the runners mentioned, but it is a formality he will be eventually.

Nobody’s “a level above” prime Farah or Lagat.

douglas burke wrote:

OOPS, Kipketer's European Record is 1:41.11 for 800, I do NOT see Jakob getting that either, a more realistic goal is Rodal's Norwegian Record of 1:42.58 which will be tough for Jakob, but it is doable, Jakob is a EL G, K.Bekele, H. Gebresellassie, E. Kipchoge type Talent, He is a level above MoFarah, B. Lagat, Mourhit, and Paul Kipsielie Koech, he has not yet reached the level of any of the runners mentioned, but it is a formality he will be eventually.

A great nickname for him would be NO HYPE NECESSARY, because he is the real thing.

He is most certainly not a level above Bernard Lagat.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

As for Barega, don't give me the lol. He ran 12:43, said he had much more in the tank, and might well go sub 12:40 or even challenge Bekele's record this year if he gets another Kejelcha sacrifice. Right now, he is easily the best in the world at the 5.

I don't know how he got that way or what was the "difference" from World Juniors to Brussels, but you can't say that he was the same athlete in the two races.

We know what the difference was, and with Ethiopians (like Kenyans) required to undergo three random tests within the ten months leading up to Doha, we're more likely to see the Barega that got whipped by Jakob.

seasoned ranker wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

OOPS, Kipketer's European Record is 1:41.11 for 800, I do NOT see Jakob getting that either, a more realistic goal is Rodal's Norwegian Record of 1:42.58 which will be tough for Jakob, but it is doable, Jakob is a EL G, K.Bekele, H. Gebresellassie, E. Kipchoge type Talent, He is a level above MoFarah, B. Lagat, Mourhit, and Paul Kipsielie Koech, he has not yet reached the level of any of the runners mentioned, but it is a formality he will be eventually.

A great nickname for him would be NO HYPE NECESSARY, because he is the real thing.

He is most certainly not a level above Bernard Lagat.

He certainly has not accomplished anywhere near B. Lagat YET (Key word is YET), but he has more Talent.

douglas burke wrote:

seasoned ranker wrote:

He is most certainly not a level above Bernard Lagat.

He certainly has not accomplished anywhere near B. Lagat YET (Key word is YET), but he has more Talent.

He absolutely does not.

Pulling the brakes wrote:

douglas burke wrote:

a more realistic goal is Rodal's Norwegian Record of 1:42.58 which will be tough for Jakob, but it is doable

He probably doesn’t have the speed, even with year-round specific training. I could see a sub-1:44 a la Webb but 1:42 is the exclusive property of true 800 runners.

douglas burke wrote:

Jakob is a EL G, K.Bekele, H. Gebresellassie, E. Kipchoge type Talent, He is a level above MoFarah, B. Lagat, Mourhit, and Paul Kipsielie Koech, he has not yet reached the level of any of the runners mentioned, but it is a formality he will be eventually.

Nobody’s “a level above” prime Farah or Lagat.

The idea that 1:42 is the exclusive property of a true 800m runner probably comes from the pathetic times recorded by the doped up EPO GOATS (El G 3:26 1500m, 1:49 800m, Bernard Lagat 3:26 1500m, 1:46 800m).

Tracks are faster, shoes getting a lot better etc. If Cram and Elliott could run 1:42 thirty years ago I don't see why Jakob can't if he's running (as he likely will) El G 1500m times naturally in a few years.

I agree that it’s likely certain EPO-using runners have skewed the data with their slow 800 PRs, but I still think 1:42 is too fast for a non-800 guy.

I suspect Coe was the most dominant middle distance runner in Olympic history in large part because of his speed as the world’s fastest 800m runner. EPO didn’t exist AFAIK, so his ability to so thoroughly dominate the world on the Olympic stage is demonstrative of the gap in speed between an 800 guy and some of the greatest clean 1500 guys in history.

So I really can’t see Jakob, a 1500/5k guy, approaching the 1:42 standard first set by one of the all-time greats. Even with advances in tech and training, 1:42 is exceptional.

Would not one expect that increases in technology provide diminishing returns as you approach ideal (or at least current ideal) efficiency?

Rupp fan wrote:

Has Kenenisa surpassed his brother, Tariku?

Lmao exactly. Jakob is better than them already.

true brit wrote:

Rupp fan wrote:

Has Kenenisa surpassed his brother, Tariku?

Lmao exactly. Jakob is better than them already.

How is he better than Filip already?

yhrebray wrote:

true brit wrote:

Lmao exactly. Jakob is better than them already.

How is he better than Filip already?

Last year I thought that he had surpassed his brothers, given that I thought Filip is solely a miler. However, watching Filip in that cross country race told me he has sub 13 potential. Very talented.

Definitely looking forward to what they do in 2019.

Coevett wrote:

Pulling the brakes wrote:

He probably doesn’t have the speed, even with year-round specific training. I could see a sub-1:44 a la Webb but 1:42 is the exclusive property of true 800 runners.

Nobody’s “a level above” prime Farah or Lagat.

The idea that 1:42 is the exclusive property of a true 800m runner probably comes from the pathetic times recorded by the doped up EPO GOATS (El G 3:26 1500m, 1:49 800m, Bernard Lagat 3:26 1500m, 1:46 800m).

Tracks are faster, shoes getting a lot better etc. If Cram and Elliott could run 1:42 thirty years ago I don't see why Jakob can't if he's running (as he likely will) El G 1500m times naturally in a few years.

Cram and Elliott were 1500/800 athletes. True milers. Jakob is a 1500/5k guy. He will never break 1:44.

In answer to the thread title, Jakob ran 6.3K at the same pace as FIlip's 10K. Even accounting for more of a kickers race for Jakob, it is still too much of a gap.

The junior race seems to have had more talent than the under 23 race. Gressier's run 1:54/3:40/13:38, while Jake Heyward, one of the junior also rans, has run 1:48/3:36/7:55?, and obviously Jakob has run 3:31/13:17 and could have run a lot faster at the 5.

With Filip, Henrik, and Jakob healthy next year, they could probably take the team title from Turkey's Kenyan-imports by themselves.

We haven't seen Jakob run a hard 800m recently but I find it hard to believe he'd break 1:43 without a lot more specific training. As it is, they do very little pacework even at 1500m pace, and that seems to be only the 10x300m work they do at the end of the season, which they described as their hardest workout of the year. They'd have to do more 800m pace to run fast 800s, I would think. Jakob has already shown that he can close in 51 or 52, though, so if they made that commitment to more 800m specific workouts, I could see him running a fast one.

I think Jakob could maybe run 1:46 next year. That's my guess.

Nah. Nick Symmonds ran 1:42, and he ran D3.

That's reasonable, though a 3:31 guy should be able to run 1:44.

Are you really gonna claim that Jakob is doping while also worshipping Bekele? Either both are doping or both aren't; pick one.

Lion Man wrote:

Believe me fool coevett, they will be caught next year before world championship...

Nah. Europeans and Americans are tested too often. Tested for real. Especially the white runners. The E. Africans, Cubans, a bunch of others are allowed to cheat for the most part. That's been pointed out by others and there's no doubt those guys are right.